Author Topic: Leave or stay in the EU?  (Read 96221 times)

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Offline Kafein

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #855 on: June 27, 2016, 12:49:29 am »
-1
Xant claims sockpuppet upon unsavoury "allies".

I've know you more original than that.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #856 on: June 27, 2016, 12:51:28 am »
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Maybe Overdriven and Tomas could tell us is post Brexit racism really a thing or just an internet hoax.

Offline Angantyr

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #857 on: June 27, 2016, 12:54:30 am »
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Case in point, the 2015 student protests at the University of Missouri (later spread to universites and colleges across the whole country), started by false rumours and hysteria on social media. What started out as threats of organized racial violence against black students turned out to be just a poop cute puppy painted on a wall on campus.


« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 01:15:38 am by Angantyr »

Offline Thomek

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #858 on: June 27, 2016, 12:57:08 am »
+1
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #859 on: June 27, 2016, 01:02:04 am »
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As many things coming from USA, that seemed fabricated and hardly believable from day one. Fake emotional stories in same vein like Jerry Springer and Maury Povich shows.

Post Brexit stories are something I can identify with and witnessed on many occasions in real life. That is why I'm inclined to believe those are mostly true.

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #860 on: June 27, 2016, 01:18:52 am »
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Boris has now said that pretty much nothing will change when we leave the EU. He wants to keep the single market, thus freedom of movement. He says pretty much the only thing that will change will be less EU legislation and that will take years.

I think the prospect of leadership for him coming at such a turbulent time has made him crap himself and now he wants to go back on it.

I saw an interesting political post as well that details about how we may not even leave the EU now due to Cameron quitting. No one is going to want to start their leadership by negotiating such a tricky thing. Add to that, the majority of MPs are remainers and may well not rattify it in parliament.

Still got an interesting few weeks ahead to say the least.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 01:22:15 am by Overdriven »

Offline Angantyr

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #861 on: June 27, 2016, 01:32:09 am »
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Will post this here again if anyone oversaw it.

Doesn't seem very well-planned from either side. Which is a bit disconcerting.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/united-kingdom/2016-06-22/leveraging-leave

Quote
From the very outset of the Brexit debate, there were those—including former London Mayor Boris Johnson, who favors leaving—who suggested that a “Leave” vote might not, in fact, be a vote to fully leave, but a signal to Brussels that the United Kingdom demands a deeper renegotiation that results in more substantial opt-outs and other special treatment. This line of thinking was swiftly brushed aside, both by the prime minister, who needed the vote to look final, and by the “Leave” campaign, which couldn’t look as though it wanted out but only sort of.

Offline SixThumbs

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #862 on: June 27, 2016, 01:45:26 am »
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That Healey guy posted that as a joke but in the end the politicians on the 'remain' side will probably end up getting their way further down the line, we can't be setting actual democracy as a precedent with the State ceding power to the people, even though I doubt anything catastrophic will happen besides speculators losing out some because of a hiccup in the stock market.
And how!

Offline kinngrimm

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #863 on: June 27, 2016, 02:50:40 am »
-1
...
Correct me if i'm wrong but from what I've read the UK contributes more money to the EU then they get back from it by a longshot. ...
About a third of what was claimed by the Leave campagne. If they would get rid of the utter useless royals, they could get that in easily. I only have some numbers from a few years back which were 4.5 billion pounds per year for the queen's castles, hat collection and stuff  :shock:  :lol:.
But serriously you don't want to argue in terms of economics, there is no sensible way that leaving the EU would benefit Britain short, medium or long term.
Sure as Oberyn said, they can do alright, but just take all the trade agreements britain "has had" till friday. They now need all to be renegotiated and britain has now far less backing in such negotiations. When you read the papers over the past days you see that a substantial amount of companies has already decided to leave the sinking ship.
Again sure from a democratic point of view, this was a win for democracy, still stupid.
At least they get rid of the banks now  :rolleyes: and perhaps in a few years England can get back in and see their mates from scottland and north-ireland(?) again.
Still it is not yet clear how much further the right wing nutjobs push the issues of immigration. If they decide against Schengen, then there is also market access and i would also guess, if britain leaves Schengen, it is not only them then buidling a wall around their country, but the whole of europe may just give them the middle finger.

...
I'm sure the large contributions to the EU the UK pays all goes into maintaining better EU market conditions, but for who? Refugees? Immigrants? France? Germany? China? Who decides? Non-elected officials.
The costs of refugees and immigrants is mainly done by the countries they are in and not much comes from the EU in these terms.
France and Germany both do as Britain has done, redistributing their money. Germany i heared repeatidly would be the highest contributer, not sure if that is still the case or now again after Britain left, someone needs to pay the bill now after the slackers left.
China??? what what?
Who decides? Not sure but i think it depends on the decession either EU parlament constiing of members of every nations parties representetives or was it the european council which i believe consists of the elected heads of states.
A while ago i read up on all the instituions of the EU and how they work, it is truely boring read and i forgot half of it already again, still any of the questions you said can also be answered by a small look in the wiki. As we now know, AFTER the Brexit sudenly the british people cared to look it up on google ...

My take on the contribution of my country is as follows:
We have not had another war for over 80 years, i gladly pay so that a few countries which are a bit behind of sorts get the chance to improve and over time may by that contribute themselves more and over all we gain a more stable and strong europe.

Rassism, Fashism and Nationalism are the major driving forces for devision and seperations, yet not only science but anyone with common sense should know that only with unity we maybe able to solve the problems which are ahead of us. The EU maybe able to gather ressources and organize labour if needed in certain dire situations ... get a dyke build against floods because of increasing sealevels, as soon as fusion energy is here, get those reactors built and put under states supervision ... solve problems which one nation alone could not. You get the theme?

EU does quite well, the only problem is with redistribution systems. Not saying capitalism is all bad, Bill Maher put it quite nicely a few shows back of his: "Socialism is what keeps capitalism on a leash so it does not consumes us all." They are not necessarily complete opposites and sane people know that, otherwise people would be on the street in the millions everyday and there would be no nation existing in europe anymore. There can be made an argument for a type of anarchism or some newer forms ressource based economy or other yet theoretical systems. People in europe mostly just don't care enough to get informed and get the ball rolling, consumers have bread & games ...
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Offline Osiris

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #864 on: June 27, 2016, 03:00:54 am »
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Scotland would have to apply for membership after we leave and if they vote for independence which Spain would probably veto to stop the catalans declaring independence.

Quote
if britain leaves Schengen, it is not only them then buidling a wall around their country, but the whole of europe may just give them the middle finger.

You know we are not and never have been members of Schengen right?
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Offline Voncrow

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #865 on: June 27, 2016, 05:47:09 am »
+1
About a third of what was claimed by the Leave campagne. If they would get rid of the utter useless royals, they could get that in easily. I only have some numbers from a few years back which were 4.5 billion pounds per year for the queen's castles, hat collection and stuff  :shock:  :lol:.

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Offline Xant

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #866 on: June 27, 2016, 10:27:25 am »
0
Xant claims sockpuppet upon unsavoury "allies".

I've know you more original than that.
You claim there are no sockpuppets? What "allies"?

Your "allies" losing seems to have impaired your logic.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #867 on: June 27, 2016, 11:17:25 am »
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Maybe Overdriven and Tomas could tell us is post Brexit racism really a thing or just an internet hoax.

Well I don't have any direct experience with it. Being in Brighton we are in a nice little bubble of liberalism.

It's been reported enough on the news though. And all over social media. Even going by some of the brexiters comments on social media I don't find it hard to believe that there is a lot of it going on. Brexit has basically given racists a voice because they now believe they have half the country behind them.

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I post this every time someone brings up how much the royal family costs.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #868 on: June 27, 2016, 11:52:53 am »
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I've lost what little respect I had for these fucking idiots. Seeing the Heskey and Overdriven types fall for every single blatant manipulation like the gullible retards they are has really opened my eyes to how fucking dumb they are.
Do you ABSOLUTE MONGS honestly think that attacks on minorities by racists are going to be an issue because the UK voted to leave the EU? This is the same sort of nonsense that's put about every time there is a muslim terrorist attack by the regressive media, the endless worry about the mythical racist "backlash" towards innocent muslims that somehow never seems to materialize, and is focused on just long enough for the event to fade into the background, and then never spoken of again, until the next time it's needed. If there hasn't been fucking retarded racist lynch mobs on the streets hunting minorities after some of it's members literally slaughter hundreds in terrorist attacks all over Europe, it's not going to happen over fucking Brexit. And of course this is the same fucking hypocrite pieces of shit who will not accept the statistical reality of who exactly commits disproportionate amount of violence in their society. I can tell you straight up it's not the "fascist", "racist", white sextegenerians that totally ruined our future, you gais.   
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #869 on: June 27, 2016, 12:03:17 pm »
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Considering immigration was the single largest argument for Brexit. Of course it stands to reason that now the vote has gone to leave the EU that legitimises people who see it as a real issue. I really don't find it hard to believe that verbal abuse ect in the streets has risen because of this. Of course it existed before. It always has. But pretending that they aren't related is idiotic.