Leave or stay in the EU?

[Falka]

if we stay, nothing changes

Stability is underrated.

[Leesin]

Stability is underrated.

A stable misery within a country where just about everything doesn't make sense any more, sure, not that leaving the EU is really going to destabilise us to the breaking point. I can't see how the UK can carry on in the direction it's going without some kind of massive clusterfuck within the population, it's been brewing for a long time and sooner or later something has to happen, people can only take so much. When I think of this country now and what my children will have to deal with growing up and when they also become adults, it makes my blood boil. I am sick of this ultra PC multi-cultural save the world attitude, where certain groups of foreigners and religions seemingly get to make their own rules, unwilling to integrate and get away with things that everyone else never would. Germans surely have learned their lesson after they welcomed refugees with open arms, only to be raped and assaulted by the same people they fed and clothed.

 Since we walked further and further down this road everything has got worse, I am just 29 and growing up I loved it here, I was proud of my Country. In my teens I noticed things changing, but was too busy being a teen to care in what ways. Once I hit my 20's and really looked around at my country, I began to realise how fucking pathetic it has become, where a foreign hate preacher who would gladly see us all dead can live in luxury off of tax money because we're "not allowed to kick him out in case someone hurts him. A country where I have been told to take my hood down in case I am a thief or trouble maker, yet Muslim ninjas can roam into the same place completely covered with only their eyes showing and that's ok?. A country where racist crime against whites is continually brushed under the carpet or overshadowed by something else the media throw in our faces.

 I get sick of hearing about the black guy Stephen Lawrence who was murdered by a bunch of white guys who were apparently racist, RIP to him and all that, it's horrible, but we hear about it every year since the early 90's, yet we heard hardly anything in 2004 and since, about the Scottish teenager who was stabbed and burned to death by a group of Asians because he was White.

I am just venting now really, because I just hate what this country has become and I want things to change, even if leaving the EU barely relates to these issues, it will at least cause some big changes and have knock on effects, whether these will be good or bad, I don't know, it's a risk worth taking IMO if Britain is to be Great again.

[Leesin]

What a surprise, we're completely different ages but when I was growing up I also loved it here and was proud of my Country. In my teens I noticed things changing, but was too busy being a teen to care in what ways. Once I hit my 20's and really looked around at my country I was completely dissolutioned.

What a coincidence that as a kid you were happy-go-lucky, more aware but still not engaged as a teen, then suddenly everything's gone to shit when you're a young adult. I'm sure no one born in the 70's or 60's or born today will go through these exact same emotions, truly your exact generation is the sole one where everything went to shit rofl, conveniently when you reached your early 20s.

From the sounds of it the issue isn't that your country was perfect before and now is shit, it's that you're no longer a kid. My recommended solution would be to get a horse or something to kick you in the head to try and simulate the mind of a child until your country appears perfect again, just like you remember.

Never said it was perfect, but I am fully aware of what the country was like during the 80's and 90's and while it was not amazing, it was miles better than it is now, there's so much more shit children have to deal with now compared to when I was a kid and the majority of it is not necessary at all.

 Everything from housing, to jobs, to being an overly PC "multi cultural" shit hole, it has all changed for the worse, in a far more accelerated manner than at any other point in our modern history. The difference is that I was too young to really take much notice of the changes until it had completely gone to shit. You can't seriously sit there and tell me that all the bad changes in the past 20 or so years is common, usual and has happened before, because it hasn't. Get off of your high horse and suck a refugee dick you scummy apologist leftie.

[Molly]

Never said it was perfect, but I am fully aware of what the country was like during the 80's and 90's and while it was not amazing, it was miles better than it is now...

Are you fucking serious? The 80's better than today? In the UK?
Racial riots in '81, '82 recession starts and Falklands go crazy, '84 Miner strikes go off and IRA bombs blow sky high...
...and the list goes on.

Literally LMAO

[Butan]

Awareness of anti-white racism must be increased, and the white = oppressive masters and non-white = oppressed victims must be removed from the minds, true Leesin.
But at the same time the complete opposite mindset of all non-white are potential serial rapists/killers and that the law/justice protect them even when they are wrong must go too. Its complete paranoia to believe that.

Its like, you are aware there is some injustice in the world, so to offset that you transform into a pure being of condensed hatred toward the "evil that noone speak about" (when everyone does in fact).
If a completely clueless person read your words, he might think that there is riots in the streets, pure bred whitey being beheaded then raped then burned by the thousands, the police looking on them with a smile... when its only a couple freak crimes per year that occurs in every other society that grinds your gear.
Of course only when its the non-white doing creepy things its very bad, lets ignore the crimes committed by everyone else, because it is totally normal occurence, its their country after all.

Leaving the EU will not erase the fact that every one of our countries have lawful immigrants that may or may not pose problems.

(click to show/hide)

Also I liked your tidbit on the "muslim ninjas" a reference to burkas I guess? I believe a hooded male is more up to not good than a burkaed female, ima just sayin'. And there is also way more chance an inoffensive burkaed female will be harassed ten times more than a hooded person... now where does the injustice lies, I wonder?

[Xant]

Are you fucking serious? The 80's better than today? In the UK?
Racial riots in '81, '82 recession starts and Falklands go crazy, '84 Miner strikes go off and IRA bombs blow sky high...
...and the list goes on.

Literally LMAO

Your ass is literally being laughed off?

[Osiris]

Are you fucking serious? The 80's better than today? In the UK?
Racial riots in '81, '82 recession starts and Falklands go crazy, '84 Miner strikes go off and IRA bombs blow sky high...
...and the list goes on.

Literally LMAO

You laugh but how are the last two decades any different?

We traded Irish terrorism for Islamic (which seems worse)
 The Falklands (which was a fully justified war) for Iraq Libya etc
We have had the London riots
And we have had just as many strikes with the tube workers bringing London to a standstill to doctors.
Not to mention the economic crash...

The main problems these days and what makes people so angry are:
 1. The Prime Minister at least just telling bare faced lies (at least they used to try to hide the fact they lie) Cameron went from saying the UK will flourish outside of the EU and he would back the leave campaign if he didn't get significant reforms to a few months later saying holy shit the world will collapse into war and the country will go back to the dark ages if we leave the EU. (had to be lying one of those times)

2. I say PC it's a pretty lazy term but I'll lump hyper sensitive find offense in everything culture here.
It politicians, liberals, TV everyone seemingly trying to stop debate and discussions they dont like by shouting racist, bigot or anti semite. Have concerns or questions about immigration? Shouted down as a racist, question Israel? Anti semite,  want to discuss anything in university you get no platforned of you don't fit into the left leaning arch liberal views of most uni under grads.

Now we get demonstrations demanding that statues be taken down bin a university because there is one of Cecil Rhodes who funds a scholarship there.... 
Transgender and gender fluidity (whateverthebfuckthat is) is becoming a major issue because it doesn't sit right with a lot of older people. Instead of talking to them and explaining things people just shout anti LGBT abuse.

The far right used to get laughed at In the UK but not anymore, when you shut down debate and speech that you don't agree with or find insensitive in this age of hyper sensitive find everything offensive culture you feed the far right with normal frustrated people who just feel disenfranchised.



Sorry ignition doesn't make sense I'm typing it on my phone for the record I dont hate Muslim's gay's Jew's or LGBT my rambling was saying the general problem not my own views.

[Leesin]

Are you fucking serious? The 80's better than today? In the UK?
Racial riots in '81, '82 recession starts and Falklands go crazy, '84 Miner strikes go off and IRA bombs blow sky high...
...and the list goes on.

Literally LMAO

Culturally and socially this country is in a far worse place than it was then. Miner strikes? yeah it's not like we have multiple strikes every year from countless sectors is it? not like all the rich greedy politicians aren't trying to privatise everything else is it? . IRA bombs? yeah because we haven't been attacked by Muslim extremists instead of IRA in recent years either have we?. Racial riots? yeah because we haven't had a Riot just 5 years ago that was widely destructive and resulted in multiple deaths and countless injuries have we?. Recession? yeah because we haven't had one of those either in recent years have we?, Falklands? how about the entire middle east bullshit? Please, if you lived here for a long period of time, at least where I live, you'd see the effects and rapid negative changes that have taken place. The list goes on.

Literally LMAO

Awareness of anti-white racism must be increased, and the white = oppressive masters and non-white = oppressed victims must be removed from the minds, true Leesin.
But at the same time the complete opposite mindset of all non-white are potential serial rapists/killers and that the law/justice protect them even when they are wrong must go too. Its complete paranoia to believe that.

Its like, you are aware there is some injustice in the world, so to offset that you transform into a pure being of condensed hatred toward the "evil that noone speak about" (when everyone does in fact).
If a completely clueless person read your words, he might think that there is riots in the streets, pure bred whitey being beheaded then raped then burned by the thousands, the police looking on them with a smile... when its only a couple freak crimes per year that occurs in every other society that grinds your gear.
Of course only when its the non-white doing creepy things its very bad, lets ignore the crimes committed by everyone else, because it is totally normal occurence, its their country after all.

Leaving the EU will not erase the fact that every one of our countries have lawful immigrants that may or may not pose problems.

(click to show/hide)

Also I liked your tidbit on the "muslim ninjas" a reference to burkas I guess? I believe a hooded male is more up to not good than a burkaed female, ima just sayin'. And there is also way more chance an inoffensive burkaed female will be harassed ten times more than a hooded person... now where does the injustice lies, I wonder?

I have to clear up, that I do NOT have a problem with Immigrants and certainly not races, I don't care what colour someone is, I was just pointing out the issues and unequality where race is concerned. I see no problem with immigrants coming here to live and work, I have immigrant friends from multiple countries, most of which HAVE integrated fairly well. The problem arises when certain groups refuse to integrate and expect us and our laws to bend to their religious and cultural traditions, there are entire towns where the reverse of integration has happened and it's like you just walked into a foreign country.

Where I work doing night shifts, about nearly a quarter of our team are African immigrants, I get on well with these guys personally, but they do little work compared to everyone else and every time the issue hits a breaking point, involving one or more of them, they all rally together and claim the manager/supervisor is racist and cause a big fuss about it. Because of the countries PC laws, regulations and the immense amount of bullshit paperwork, these guys have gotten away with this for years. We have Eastern Europeans, Indians, Filipino, all of which are more productive and never play the race card when they are called out on something by a superior. It makes my blood boil because these are jobs that other people could have, people that would actually work, because of the laziness and issues these guys cause, it makes everyone elses jobs harder. They wanted to come to this country to live and work, for a better life, then they should be working hard and respect our country, instead they shit on it like other groups of Immigrants have been doing so for years and they get away with it because of the PC bullshit system we seem to base everything on now. To echo something said from Putin, something I actually agreed with even though I don't exactly admire Russia, " Minorities need us, we don't need them", if you want to come here to live and work, learn our Language, respect our culture and integrate, or fuck off.

[Molly]

So, really nothing has changed at all? 

[Leesin]

So, really nothing has changed at all? 

Those big issues remain yes, but worse, socially and culturally things have got FAR worse. So yeah, a lot has changed.

[Overdriven]

I want UK to leave the EU, I was on the fence to begin with, but honestly I just want to see what actually happens if we leave the EU, if we stay, nothing changes, probably gets worse anyway and we'll never know what leaving the EU would do for us, good or bad. I'd rather take the risk and see if the grass really is greener, because even if it isn't I am pretty sure I can survive and provide for my children.

Pretty much my stance at the moment. Although I'm still veering from side to side on it.

Got my poll card through yesterday!

Are you fucking serious? The 80's better than today? In the UK?
Racial riots in '81, '82 recession starts and Falklands go crazy, '84 Miner strikes go off and IRA bombs blow sky high...
...and the list goes on.

Literally LMAO

The sick man of Europe comes to mind. Though that was more the 70s.

But I agree what this country went through in the 70s and 80s was pretty damn terrible. The 90s/early 00s were a time of prosperity that has been pretty unmatched at any other point. Even after the recession, although it sucked for those who lost their jobs, it's still nothing compared to the post war decades and up to the 90s.

Now poverty means not having a shiny smart phone. Heck my wife went and volunteered in one of the poorest areas in the country (Whitehawk down here in Brighton) and became totally disillusioned with the class of people there. You had these single mothers complaining they couldn't feed their kids and had to go to food banks, all whilst posting about it on FB on an iphone and keeping 100 pets. The usual crap.

People just don't realise how good we have it now and have no idea how to manage their finances properly to stay within a budget. Whereas then you had people like my grandparents who literally scrimped and saved every scrap of food to turn it in to something else. Heck my Grandfather even occasionally brought road kill home to cook if it was killed relatively cleanly.

The amount of times I see people complaining about expensive food without realising if they decided to buy fresh produce from a green grocer, rather than frozen foods and pre-packaged crap they wouldn't have a problem. But god forbid they learn to cook when they can just shove something in an oven. There are tons of things out there that can guide you to save a fortune but most people aren't willing to try because it's not instant and easy. They cause their own problems and only have themselves to blame.

Economically there really isn't anything particularly wrong currently. But can agree with others that the main cause of stress in this country will be cultural. We used to go to the Islamic society at my University and they were total nut jobs and wouldn't socialise at all outside of that community. And that is a serious problem. We have a large group of Muslim friends who are the total opposite and completely integrated, but there are some who just refuse to even try and that's reflected across multiple cultural groups, particularly first gen immigrants. I get that you may want to retain some cultural identity and so stick to familiar groups, but you can do that and comfortably integrate at the same time.

Where I work doing night shifts, about nearly a quarter of our team are African immigrants, I get on well with these guys personally, but they do little work compared to everyone else and every time the issue hits a breaking point, involving one or more of them, they all rally together and claim the manager/supervisor is racist and cause a big fuss about it. Because of the countries PC laws, regulations and the immense amount of bullshit paperwork, these guys have gotten away with this for years. We have Eastern Europeans, Indians, Filipino, all of which are more productive and never play the race card when they are called out on something by a superior. It makes my blood boil because these are jobs that other people could have, people that would actually work, because of the laziness and issues these guys cause, it makes everyone elses jobs harder. They wanted to come to this country to live and work, for a better life, then they should be working hard and respect our country, instead they shit on it like other groups of Immigrants have been doing so for years and they get away with it because of the PC bullshit system we seem to base everything on now. To echo something said from Putin, something I actually agreed with even though I don't exactly admire Russia, " Minorities need us, we don't need them", if you want to come here to live and work, learn our Language, respect our culture and integrate, or fuck off.

You get opposite examples though. I worked at Yodel for around 6 months doing night shifts and the worker population there was something like 85% Polish. They were incredibly hard working, even though a lot of them didn't speak much English and most of the time it was the English guys who were lazy and causing the trouble. Some of those Polish guys were class and I learnt the back ground of a few. There was an older guy with a Phillipino wife who was here saving up to move back to the Phillipines with her from Poland. Another guy who was studying in Poland to be a PE teacher but wanted to save some money to get married. A couple of girls who came here to escape fucked up marriages and start a new life on their own. Most of them car pooled and house shared, some worked a day job as well as night job and almost exclusively put little to no strain on the welfare system ect.

Thing is leaving the EU would only instantly stop EU migration. It's not going to stop those coming illegally and, knowing our Government (regardless of which party is in charge), they will still welcome them with open arms anyway.

[Oberyn]

  Hail Hydra I guess. Apparently talking about national sovereignty and borders = insane chocolate chip cookie psychopathic villain. Oh the sweet, sweet propaganda.

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[Molly]

I kinda have the feeling that recent national history is not a big thing in the UK schooling system.

Just a hint: the Miner strike went on for about 12 months...

[Overdriven]

It's not.

Pretty much only taught up until civil rights movements in the US in the 60s. At least when I was studying about 8 years ago in GCSE.

God forbid anything about the British Empire is taught in case it offends someone. Most of our taught history is about other countries once you get to GCSE level.

[Oberyn]

Lol yeah muslim terrorism is completely new in France! No such thing as algerian terrorists attacking France during their independance war or their civil war right afterwards, which the UK hypocriticly defended and portrayed as righteous rebellion, going so far as to give asylum to some perpetrators, while simultaneously opressing the irish as they have done throughout their entire existence. But I'm sure the UK experience with the IRA was uniquely horrifying, sure, and completely unwarranted.