Leave or stay in the EU?

[Tibes]

I wonder how hard it is to get a country that is dependent on EU welfare subsidies to vote in Germany's favor when it comes to only needing a 51% majority to pass new regulations. It must be nice to have never ending supply of low paid slavs and refugees slaving away in factories for minimum wage to pay into their nation's tax system though.

Vote in Germany's favor what? You cant vote anything in anyones favour. Especially a single country's. Just not possible. I dont think you have any idea how any of this works. Im beginning to wounder if we Yuros are as wrong about the US as you are about Europe. Sucking ass to the Germans doesnt get you anything.

[Grytviken]

Vote in Germany's favor what? You cant vote anything in anyones favour. Especially a single country's. Just not possible. I dont think you have any idea how any of this works. Im beginning to wounder if we Yuros are as wrong about the US as you are about Europe. Sucking ass to the Germans doesnt get you anything.

There are 23 000 staff members working in the Commission in departments, known as Directorates-General (DGs) or services, each responsible for a particular policy area and headed by a Director-General.
The DGs draft laws, but their proposals become official only once the College of Commissioners adopts them during its weekly meeting.
The DGs also manage funding initiatives at EU level, carry out public consultations and communication activities.
The Commission also administers a number of executive agencies, which help the European Commission manage EU programmes.

That's alot of Federal power given to appointed officials. IMO it undermines more democratic representation of the public masses on the National level especially when it conflicts or has precedence, but that's just my opinion you can have yours.

[Grytviken]

Brexit has been pretty farcical overall. Almost to US standards.

And I agree, Overdriven, I also liked David Cameron. It's a shame to see him go.

Nice cheap jab, but at least in our system the House and Senate, representatives of the people that can be held accountable and lose their job if they screw up, get to vote on trade treaties. We have a transparent system where we can actually see and have representation in how our tax money is spent and how our policies represent the nation.


Your representatives however are subordinate to this system.


The Commission's main roles are to:
1. propose legislation which is then adopted by the co-legislators, the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers
2. enforce European law (where necessary with the help of the Court of Justice of the EU)
3. set a objectives and priorities for action, outlined yearly in the Commission Work Programme and work towards delivering them
4. manage and implement EU policies and the budget
5. represent the Union outside Europe (negotiating trade agreements between the EU and other countries, for example.).

So when the EU votes for the TTIP enjoy having no direct representation in how your trade union decides it will bargain with the United States with your economy and tax dollars when it comes to making this trade agreement. The representatives of the people of the United States will be able to vote on it and amend it, yours won't.

Those are high Euro standards that allow an international commission of appointed bankers and businessmen to decide to regulate everything from trade, investment and industry and treaties and play with your nation's tax money without any direct representation or real accountability.

[Rhekimos]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/04/standard-life-shuts-property-fund-post-brexit-withdrawals

On the positive side, this referendum has seen a number of Rupert Murdoch's snakes cleared from your garden. Choose the next leaders wisely.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/brexiteers-need-act-now-become-hated-people-history/
And don't dally!

There's also a legal challenge to Brexit, but it does not seem likely to stop Brexit even if successful in itself according to a BBC analysis: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36703799

[Leshma]

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How about second Battle of the Somme so these patriots fight for their mighty tribe to reign supreme over the other? Sounds like a decent way to get rid of their kind and afterwards ban their shitty opinion for another 50 years.

[Rhekimos]

The DGs also manage funding initiatives at EU level...

That's alot of Federal power given to appointed officials.

OTOH EU funding didn't even manage to buy the vote from the poorest areas of the UK!

But maybe we would be better served by electing Michael "the people are tired of experts" Gove as the education minister. Or Donald Trump to manage EU funding. Those golden Trump towers are classy as fuck after all. Forget all those no-name know-it-all pen-pushers who didn't even have to use considerable amounts of time and money to campaign to be able to begin doing their work.

Also the supranational political union known as the EU is just fundamentally different to a federal system you are comparing it to. It is precisely because member nations have wanted to keep their sovereignty that it has less representation of the type you find familiar in the US federal system.
We could have that but we'd have to first give up more of the essential nationhood, clip our wings and transform into states under one government. Become a United States of Europe. And not many are willing to do it nor would it be a snap of the fingers to make happen. Though with Brexit, by far the biggest influence slowing deeper political integration of the EU and also this one possible end-point for eventual development bowed out.

[Leshma]

Ten years ago or so Serbia had minister of education who tried to purge theory of evolution from elementary and high schools. At same time they made theology optional subject in elementary schools. Probably one of the most embarrassing things to ever happen in these lands. Luckily daft bitch was forced to resign but theology is still an option.

[Turkhammer]

How about second Battle of the Somme so these patriots fight for their mighty tribe to reign supreme over the other? Sounds like a decent way to get rid of their kind and afterwards ban their shitty opinion for another 50 years.

You seem to have a common theme to your posts lately.  Namely wishing death to people that hold contrary opinions to yourself.  How refreshing.

[Falka]

We have a transparent system

Popular vote    George W. Bush 50,456,002    Al Gore 50,999,897

Right.

[Turkhammer]

Right.

Tell the whole story while you're at it.  Bush had 271 electoral votes 1, Gore had 266 electoral votes .  270, electoral votes were needed to win. 
It was the fourth presidential election in US history in which the winner did not gain a plurality of the popular vote.
Law suits over the closeness of the vote in Fla reached the Supreme Court which ruled in favor of Bush.

It was in the same wiki article you probably consulted.

The loser is always going to cry.

What is not transparent to you?

[Rhekimos]

The Brexit vote is a setback for the government’s attempts to sell off its stake in Royal Bank of Scotland, the chief executive of the bailed-out bank said on Monday.

Shares in the bank have fallen more than 30% since Britain voted to leave the EU and the share closed on Monday at 167p, well below the 502p average price at which taxpayers bought their stake in the bank.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/04/brexit-vote-setback-rbs-sell-off



The first signs of post-Brexit financial stress: property fund suspended

There have been bigger falls in the value of quoted property funds or real estate investment trusts (REITs) with some dropping by 20%; funds based in central London have taken the biggest hit.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2016/07/after-brexit-vote


London property deals worth more than £650m collapse after Brexit

More than £650m of commercial property deals in the City of London have collapsed following the UK’s vote to leave the EU, including the proposed acquisition of a landmark office block by Germany’s Union Investment.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/123c044c-3f67-11e6-8716-a4a71e8140b0.html


Barack Obama warns of ‘investment freeze’ after Brexit

‘At a time when global growth rates were weak already, this doesn’t help,’ the US president said.

http://www.politico.eu/article/barack-obama-warns-of-investment-freeze-after-brexit-eu-referendum-uk-economy-consequences-markets/


Projects signed off on in fields such as engineering, education and R&D are not in jeopardy, the European Investment Bank has told The Register.
The EU bank that has poured more than £34bn (€42bn) over 10 years into UK projects will honour its existing deals in the wake of last week’s Brexit vote.

“Given our strong engagement in supporting R&D in the last 40 years in the UK, that is now at risk.”

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/30/european_investment_bank_pledge/


The economic effects of Brexit will take years to unfold. Doubtless we'll see more when the divorce is officially announced and the two year timetable for any real changes begins. Nothing concerning market rules has been changed yet.

[Rhekimos]

According to research by Opinium 1.2 million Leave voters now regret their vote.
The same research found that 3% or 480,000 Remain voters also regret their vote. With division in front of trying times apparently weighting their minds.

"More than half of those surveyed also felt both the UK’s economy and position in the world had worsened, but almost one in 10 said they did not believe the Brexit would be implemented."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-second-eu-referendum-leave-voters-regret-bregret-choice-in-millions-a7113336.html


Second referendum possible:

Dominic Grieve, a Conservative MP who was the Government’s chief legal advisor until 2014, said the result of the first referendum had to be “treated with respect” but that it was not necessarily set in stone.

In correspondence seen and verified by The Independent Mr Grieve tells a constituent that the result of the first referendum cannot be ignored, but that a second plebiscite could become democratically justifiable.

Labour and Ukip have said that the 2015 general election manifestos did not include any plans on how to leave the European Union and that a general election would give a new government a mandate for Brexit. The front-running candidates for the Conservative general election have suggested they do not want an immediate general election.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-grieve-brexit-second-eu-referendum-legal-former-attorney-general-says-7119491.html


Brexit: EU referendum was a 2-2 'draw' and UK exit will not happen, LSE professor says

The way the EU referendum result was split across the UK should be considered a draw, an expert on European and constitutional law has claimed.

London School of Economics' Dr Jo Murkens pointed out Scotland and Northern Ireland voted clearly to remain in the EU, while voters in England and Wales opted to leave.

He said Brexit could be therefore be avoided with willing leadership - while warning Britain's withdrawal from the EU could have devastating consequences for the country's unity.

“I can see no Prime Minister who would want to preside over the break-up of the United Kingdom.”

Some commentators have suggested Boris Johnson also came to the same conclusion as Dr Murkens, which would provide a possible explanation for his surprise withdrawal from the Conservative leadership race on Thursday.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-draw-so-brexit-should-be-avoided-constitutional-expert-says-a7111431.html

[Osiris]

When the vote doesn't go your way ignore it! Sounds like a good way to inspire confidence in democracy, that will teach all those people who think their votes don't matter!

[Paul]

Yes, please leave. Gib article 50 and we can get it on the way.

[Rhekimos]

When the vote doesn't go your way ignore it! Sounds like a good way to inspire confidence in democracy, that will teach all those people who think their votes don't matter!

Quite so, but all the choices left for UK are full of costs. Apparently costs so bad that Merkel and her closest policy wonks have already put UK on life support, prioritizing the softest possible treatment of UK over stability of the European Union itself.

It looks like you've voted to drive the bus off a cliff. All your leaders have resigned or are embattled. Not-quite-true figures were wide-spread. Leaving the single market looks like it would simply wreck your economy. Not leaving the single market would mean accepting free movement, yet curtailing immigration was a main theme and a promise, even from Cameron. You were promised to have a big boost to the NHS if you leave, and no hard choices. But that's all that's really left for you.

In fact it looks so bad for you that I'm kind of siding with Merkel, already out of self-interest. I don't want that much instability near me.