Jan Böhmermann faces imprisonment for insulting Tardogan?

[Falka]

Thankfully we have independent courts which rule in accordance with the law, not diplomatic relations.

[Renay]

You guys understand me wrong. I don't have a fucked up view of things, I just firmly believe that is what's going to happen. I'm quite a liberal person actually.

Thankfully we have independent courts which rule in accordance with the law, not diplomatic relations.

You must live in a nice world. Everything comes down to diplomatic relations, there is no true justice.

[Falka]

You must live in a nice world. Everything comes down to diplomatic relations, there is no true justice.

No, not that nice, but I live in a world where independent judges in independent courts don't give a damn about diplomation.

[Renay]

No, not that nice, but I live in a world where independent judges in independent courts don't give a damn about diplomation.

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but in this case I am sure that diplomacy will outweigh justice. They will pay off or threaten people if they have to.

[Falka]

They will pay off or threaten people if they have to.

 

[Lt_Anders]

Nonsense. I'm tightening the discussion.

I know it might be hard for you and your 80 IQ points to understand, but that was sarcasm. Defining what you're talking about should be the starting point of every debate. Compare what you quoted with this, perhaps even you will see the light after some pondering:

I know it might be hard for you and your 80 IQ points to understand, but that was a joke.

[Rhekimos]

Even without diplomacy and realpolitik, what he did was substantially against German law. Namely insulting any foreign leader. These weren't some invented charges due to diplomatic pressure, surprisingly enough. Furthermore he did it extremely publicly and started if off by saying that he was in full understanding that he was breaking the law. The rule of law in Germany itself was challenged in addition to this not-so-great law. Just for that, there must be a process.

What do you think would happen if criminal acts broadcasted to the whole nation don't get investigated?

Now, Ergodan's usefulness and NATO ally status do make it less likely that this particular law faces what mechanisms exist for old and decrepit laws to be unmade in Germany this time around. It'd be a bit too much of a slap in the face to ignore your own laws just to scorn him.

[Xant]

I know it might be hard for you and your 80 IQ points to understand, but that was a joke.

It has to be funny to qualify as a joke.

[AntiBlitz]

I was a tad bit more surprised by Antiblitz post about his hate of turks, if I understood correctly what the hell he spoke about?

your feet all smell of fish, your mothers are all whores, you are bastards, I detest you all, and believe you are the worst crpg players.

i think your feet smell bad, i saw your mother out after dark once, your father is illegitimate, Youre Yurofeg, therefore i hate you, and Farmer Nate plays crpg better then you.  But yes, pass it towards the turks lol.

This whole topic is a joke, tells a lot about the country tbh, not that we didnt know it already anyways.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Even without diplomacy and realpolitik, what he did was substantially against German law. Namely insulting any foreign leader. These weren't some invented charges due to diplomatic pressure, surprisingly enough. Furthermore he did it extremely publicly and started if off by saying that he was in full understanding that he was breaking the law. The rule of law in Germany itself was challenged in addition to this not-so-great law. Just for that, there must be a process.

What do you think would happen if criminal acts broadcasted to the whole nation don't get investigated?

Now, Ergodan's usefulness and NATO ally status do make it less likely that this particular law faces what mechanisms exist for old and decrepit laws to be unmade in Germany this time around. It'd be a bit too much of a slap in the face to ignore your own laws just to scorn him.

Agreed with all of that. You're very agreeable to my sentiments usually, Rhekimos.

Naturally, with my lolbertarian tendencies, I can not personally support any legislation barring any speech not directly resulting in physical harm (the time-honored pleb analogy of calling FIRE in a crowded theatre). I find any law prohibiting absolute free speech with that singular exception to be immoral.

Even so, I recognize that not very many nations are in line with my ideals, and there simply aren't any that fit perfectly. Since Germany had a law on the books prohibiting the man's actions, punishment fitting the letter of that law must be doled out. Do I reckon that the law in question should be hung from the legislative gallows? Yeah, I do. But if the (maybe ostensibly) elected leadership of a nation have enacted a law that has not been redacted, punishment must not be exempted from individuals or groups breaking the law.

No, not that nice, but I live in a world where independent judges in independent courts don't give a damn about diplomation.

Where in Christ's name do you live that all (or even a large majority) courts and judicial staff perform their duties completely in accordance with the letter of the law, instead of a god-awful amalgamation of "hey, is this guy important? does he have shekels (making him important)? is there going to be political backlash for performing X judicial action?"

Such a place would make a very interesting documentary. The one location on this rock in which the letter of the law prevails 99/100 times.

[Molly]

[...] Since Germany had a law on the books prohibiting the man's actions, punishment fitting the letter of that law must be doled out. Do I reckon that the law in question should be hung from the legislative gallows? Yeah, I do. But if the (maybe ostensibly) elected leadership of a nation have enacted a law that has not been redacted, punishment must not be exempted from individuals or groups breaking the law.
[...]

There are some really silly laws in place in some states of the USA. Laws from 17xx and stuff. Punishing man and woman holding hand in the street when not married and even 'worse' stuff if you consider our current Western liberal stand.
You want people to be punished "fitting the letter of that law" too?

The law that is relevant for Böhmermann - the law about insulting a foreign head of state - has its background in the Cold War.
But things have changed now anyway since Erdogan as a person has filed a case as a private person with a private lawyer. So my guess right now is that Merkel won't allow the 'insulting a head of state' law to be acted upon because the personal case of Erdogan himself is something that will go its way and nobody has to agree to that one. That is just a normal civil case for a normal civil court.

[Falka]

Where in Christ's name do you live that all (or even a large majority) courts and judicial staff perform their duties completely in accordance with the letter of the law, instead of a god-awful amalgamation of "hey, is this guy important? does he have shekels (making him important)?

What does it change?

is there going to be political backlash for performing X judicial action?

What political backlash? Dunno about America, but in Eu judges can't be sacked and are independent from government.

[Rhekimos]

"Turkey insult case can go ahead - Merkel"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36055488

[Paul]

She also said that this law will be removed until 2018 because it's not needed anymore.

[Molly]

She actually has a valid argument. Didn't think of it that way but I kinda agree with it 

It is not up to the government if he violated current law or not - a court has to do that.
Simple really...

...but it's kinda 'meh' to say "Yea, well, bad luck that this law is still in place, we kinda didn't think anyone would be asshole enough to make use of it cuz of some entertainment program in TV... well, we gonna remove it now but suck it up, Böhmermann."

Maybe they are confident that the court will decide "not guilty" but that would be a risk move.