Women's right to vote...

[Algarn]

Is it me or are the politithreads in this forum getting more extreme over time?

You can't expect the people lurking on a forum of a 6yo dead mod of a 8yo dying game to have sane minds. I'd advise you to get Tarkov, the community/forums are mostly quite cool and good natured as long as you don't speak about gun control, it's a good change from what I've seen on cRPG forums. The game looks promising and has a good starting community, definitely better than what one has got on cRPG nowadays.

[Admerius]

Oh the retard Admerius is Swedish? what a surprise. Maybe if you're going to spout ignorant backwards opinions and play it off as a defence of "western civilization" you should come from a country that hasn't been irrelevant for the past hundreds of years of modern history.

Wow! Identity politics, my nationality somehow affects the quality of my arguments?

Do you need your nation to have a proud recent history in order for your arguments to have merit?
That's a really uncivilized and uncultivated intellectual climate.

How do you jump from green to arange? is this completely out of context or are you comparing women with children?

and how on earth do you jump from there to an article about rape under ISIS?
Do you know something about the ISIS? Women have no election right in the islamic state. So one of your key political ideas is closer to ISIS than to western values. congrats.
and your article about rape under ISIS.... you know that sexual abuse is much more common in countries where woman have a lower social status and less rights? I really don't think I would serve my imaginary daughter well if I give all men the right to rule over her(by voting) and she only has to endure whatever is coming.
Go show some balls and visit your mom. have a cup of coffee with her and tell her you think she should give up her right to vote.
and please let me know how that went.

Am I comparing them to children?
No, but the similarities with my analogy are striking when you watch what some of these naive women say(not necessarily how they are acting).

Women's freedom of movement has been unofficially restricted, if you do not follow the advice there is a willing white-guilt brigade ready to victim blame. There are several no-go zones so the problems are already here, Swedish citizens living effectively under sharia law.

Regarding the ISIS reference, it is currently the most violent faction of another "civilization". The problem is that they no-go zones in Sweden will experience a cultural shift towards something much more similar to ISIS than what it used to be: a working class social democrat suburb.
The changes that are happening in Sweden are insane for example: Unisex pools in public baths has to be segregated because of sexual molestations by men with a different cultural/moral/religious view on women.

Guess how the state media tries to offer a counter narrative:

You heard it... it's all men.


"Go show some balls and visit your mom. have a cup of coffee with her and tell her you think she should give up her right to vote.
and please let me know how that went." Challenge accepted, it will take a couple of months though, feel free to remind me.


 

[Xant]

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[Admerius]

Yes, but such things don't go alone, not outside the simplest of thought experiments concerning societal interaction. If someone in an academic setting said that let's take away the voting rights of group X, and that taking those voting rights away would not affect group X's position in society in any way, they'd be laughed right out of the room.

I guess that leaves them with something to do at least.

Societal status of women are already being infringed, and I'm talking about native(3+ generation of ancestors born here) Swedish women. The police implied that going outside is dangerous at night in a town in central Sweden and that women should stay in doors at night. That implies you should self-restrict freedom of association, movement and expression. This is worse than being forced to stay at home, it is similar to having freedom of thought as long as you don't think about X and it is up to you to not think about X.

I know I'm alarmist now, but this trend will continue and it will get worse.

These are ideas to be sure, but you left out how each of these would actually result in a societal good or improve the current situation or are simply morally important. Only here:

You argued that: State power should be used to have our women breed more. And this would combat the Muslim threat. Unless I'm mistaken.

But the sterilization at 35 kinda fights against this. And the forced contraceptives for any woman in office.

35+ is set arbitrarily it could be 40+
The point is that child borne to mothers in their late 30's and later has increased risks of birth defects. These birth defects should be responsibility of the mother to pay for(maybe insurance companies will start selling Childhealth insurances) because it is most likely caused by the age of the mother.

Final note on this: I didn't write sterilization, as in coerced chocolate chip cookie-style eugenics, I wrote it should be encouraged.

And divorces should be difficult, because marriage is a commitment, except free divorces from women over 35?

What?

Yup, childbearing(with lowest risk of birthdefects) days frequently over by then.

[Leshma]

You can't expect the people lurking on a forum of a 6yo dead mod of a 8yo dying game to have sane minds. I'd advise you to get Tarkov, the community/forums are mostly quite cool and good natured as long as you don't speak about gun control, it's a good change from what I've seen on cRPG forums. The game looks promising and has a good starting community, definitely better than what one has got on cRPG nowadays.

Dunno about others but I visit this forum because I'm not playing online games atm.

[Leshma]

I'm talking about the right to vote specifically

About that... when I think how most people are (men and women), only answer is to abolish voting altogether. Then I think again and realize that's worse option. Status quo is fine and democracy ain't that bad. Problem is, to achieve true democracy you need classless system like communism. Because class differences create issues that we blame democracy for. It is abuse of the few who make system look bad.

[Son Of Odin]

Trolololo

[Laufknoten]

The problem isn't women being able to vote, the problem is women buying into that extreme left-wing bullshit more easily than men, especially since it's so "feminized" nowadays. And you won't get them back by treating them like little children who shouldn't be able to vote because they'll just make stupid decisions anyway.

Also right-wing parties are on the rise in europe and Merkels reign will soon be over (at least I hope we don't have to deal with her much longer), so we will see what happens in 5-10 years.

[Rhekimos]

Final note on this: I didn't write sterilization, as in coerced chocolate chip cookie-style eugenics, I wrote it should be encouraged.

35+ is set arbitrarily it could be 40+
The point is that child borne to mothers in their late 30's and later has increased risks of birth defects. These birth defects should be responsibility of the mother to pay for(maybe insurance companies will start selling Childhealth insurances) because it is most likely caused by the age of the mother.
Yup, childbearing(with lowest risk of birthdefects) days frequently over by then.

True.

Okay, now we have an argument that reproduction should be dis-encouraged by women over 35-40, because of the increased risk of birth defects. And the mechanisms for this would be encouraged sterilization and free divorces from women of that age and that women should be held responsible for any birth defects.
The pivotal question is if birth defects are a big enough societal problem to make these changes that fundamentally alter the status of women in western society.

I don't find this to be a position easily defended.

Societal status of women are already being infringed, and I'm talking about native(3+ generation of ancestors born here) Swedish women. The police implied that going outside is dangerous at night in a town in central Sweden and that women should stay in doors at night. That implies you should self-restrict freedom of association, movement and expression.

As disheartening to hear the police say that may be, they most likely did not say it as a legal opinion, but as advice to keep people safe. They communicated risk. It would be quite another thing to codify those into law.

This is worse than being forced to stay at home, it is similar to having freedom of thought as long as you don't think about X and it is up to you to not think about X.

What?

I'm sure more women would accept a risk of something happening when they go outside (there's always some risk in every case) rather than be forced to stay at home.

I seriously have no idea what you are trying to get across with this freedom of thought example.

[Xant]

Trolololo

MABTW forums were glorious back in the day.

[Admerius]

True.

Okay, now we have an argument that reproduction should be dis-encouraged by women over 35-40, because of the increased risk of birth defects. And the mechanisms for this would be encouraged sterilization and free divorces from women of that age and that women should be held responsible for any birth defects.
The pivotal question is if birth defects are a big enough societal problem to make these changes that fundamentally alter the status of women in western society.

I don't find this to be a position easily defended.

This damn quoting system on this forum...

Regarding the right to vote part:
It is impossible to argue for removing the vote for women. I must honestly admit that there is not any real persuasive arguments that will not be construed as woman hating, anti-liberty and/or regression to the 1800's.

The pro arguments:
-The differences(in general) between male/female social structures. One example:
Response from work colleagues when they learned I was ill once:
Male colleagues: They focused on helping me with the work tasks, and was primarily concerned with me being able to work.
Female colleagues: Focused the entire attention on making sure I felt well, the concern was much more towards the state of mind rather than the ability to perform.

In summary: I want an effective state, not a feel good state.
I want fairness, swift proportional retribution rather than a clean pacifistic conscience. <---The last point is more of a problem with the beta-male-leftist-white-knights.

The following documentary is a very good argument for: Kindness, swift and proportional retribution followed by instant forgiveness when and if it has been earned.
Richard Dawkins - "Nice Guys Finish First" - Documentary 1986

As disheartening to hear the police say that may be, they most likely did not say it as a legal opinion, but as advice to keep people safe. They communicated risk. It would be quite another thing to codify those into law.

What?

I'm sure more women would accept a risk of something happening when they go outside (there's always some risk in every case) rather than be forced to stay at home.

I seriously have no idea what you are trying to get across with this freedom of thought example.

The freedom of thought analogy was meant to point out the risks that self-enforced restrictions on our liberties can easily get out of hand. It could escalate to victim blaming and soon thereafter laws will be put forward to enforce what the majority thinks is sensible.
It has already happened with restrictions on free speech/freedom of expression which has made those ideas and expressions to intellectual fetishes, which makes them attractive contrarian rebellious ideas/expressions, some of those adhering to them are just insecure persons that need something special to identify with to feel any sense of self-worth.

As I wrote I was a bit alarmist, and that is because of Swedish media covering up quite a lot.
This has made me lose my social liberal ideals in less than 6 months, I'm now a lot more aligned with the far right except for:
-Their archaic view on racial identity,
-Their overly vengeful attitude towards criminals,
-The notion that capitalism and a completely free market magically will respect the value of human life and well being.

[Son Of Odin]

MABTW forums were glorious back in the day.

Very entertaining to say the least.

[Xant]

This damn quoting system on this forum...

Regarding the right to vote part:
It is impossible to argue for removing the vote for women. I must honestly admit that there is not any real persuasive arguments that will not be construed as woman hating, anti-liberty and/or regression to the 1800's.

The pro arguments:
-The differences(in general) between male/female social structures. One example:
Response from work colleagues when they learned I was ill once:
Male colleagues: They focused on helping me with the work tasks, and was primarily concerned with me being able to work.
Female colleagues: Focused the entire attention on making sure I felt well, the concern was much more towards the state of mind rather than the ability to perform.

In summary: I want an effective state, not a feel good state.
I want fairness, swift proportional retribution rather than a clean pacifistic conscience. <---The last point is more of a problem with the beta-male-leftist-white-knights.

The following documentary is a very good argument for: Kindness, swift and proportional retribution followed by instant forgiveness when and if it has been earned.
Richard Dawkins - "Nice Guys Finish First" - Documentary 1986

The freedom of thought analogy was meant to point out the risks that self-enforced restrictions on our liberties can easily get out of hand. It could escalate to victim blaming and soon thereafter laws will be put forward to enforce what the majority thinks is sensible.
It has already happened with restrictions on free speech/freedom of expression which has made those ideas and expressions to intellectual fetishes, which makes them attractive contrarian rebellious ideas/expressions, some of those adhering to them are just insecure persons that need something special to identify with to feel any sense of self-worth.

As I wrote I was a bit alarmist, and that is because of Swedish media covering up quite a lot.
This has made me lose my social liberal ideals in less than 6 months, I'm now a lot more aligned with the far right except for:
-Their archaic view on racial identity,
-Their overly vengeful attitude towards criminals,
-The notion that capitalism and a completely free market magically will respect the value of human life and well being.

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[WarLord]

You can't expect the people lurking on a forum of a 6yo dead mod of a 8yo dying game to have sane minds. I'd advise you to get Tarkov, the community/forums are mostly quite cool and good natured as long as you don't speak about gun control, it's a good change from what I've seen on cRPG forums. The game looks promising and has a good starting community, definitely better than what one has got on cRPG nowadays.

Warband is only a few months older than crpg, march 2010 ;)

[Algarn]

Well, doesn't change the fact it's still old as fuck. Thought it was released on 2008 for some reason, probably because of the graphics.