We Are Reverting

[matt2507]

Raylin's patch is in now. Last patch was recently pushed through. So now you can test his changes, but still most likely going to revert.

No it's not, still the old value.

[Shik]

actually I was already part of the team some years ago when Shik was in charge and i'm the reason for amongst other things- 3slot long spears/pikes, riding requirement increases on heavy horses, the changes to kicks and bump damage being considerably lower.

this is true, imisshotmail's feedback as well as the feedback of other skilled players was invaluable for balance in the past. I as well as Tydeus have both agreed in the past that they are deserving of the position of item balancer, or at the very least of having their opinion taken seriously.

[Nightingale]

this is true, imisshotmail's feedback as well as the feedback of other skilled players was invaluable for balance in the past. I as well as Tydeus have both agreed in the past that they are deserving of the position of item balancer, or at the very least of having their opinion taken seriously.

Nice to see you shik, even though you were drug back by imisshotmail to attempt to validate his opinion as some kind of favor to him. I will continue to ignore him, till he can, at the very least express his opinion in a non-elitest manner with no validation other than a K/d of 6.2 on a screenshot and some vague balance adjustments one including the death of heavy cavalry for awhile.

I honestly don't know what he thought bringing you to this thread would actually do for him? You haven't been heard from in (a) year(s)? Tbvh him bringing you here has only made me wish to overlook his posts even more.

Either way nice to hear from you Shik; see you next time you decide to post as a favor to one of your buddies.

[imisshotmail]

Nice to see you shik, even though you were drug back by imisshotmail to attempt to validate his opinion as some kind of favor to him. I will continue to ignore him, till he can, at the very least express his opinion in a non-elitest manner with no validation other than a K/d of 6.2 on a screenshot and some vague balance adjustments one including the death of heavy cavalry for awhile.

I honestly don't know what he thought bringing you to this thread would actually do for him? You haven't been heard from in (a) year(s)? Tbvh him bringing you here has only made me wish to overlook his posts even more.

Either way nice to hear from you Shik; see you next time you decide to post as a favor to one of your buddies.

First of all I showed Shik the OP of this thread to show him how terrible cRPG balancing has got since he has been gone, and he read it and posted that.

Second of all 'the death of heavy cavalry'?, you mean the balancing of the most overpowered class in the game since forever and still is? It was and is always the strongest class and every good player who I respect knows this, the changes to the class just tried to add some semblance of fairness to a fairly ridiculous concept for a class in a multiplayer game.

I have posted purely objective balancing in the past but people read it, don't agree with the statements and then post their own blatantly wrong opinions in reply at an attempt to prove me wrong, when their opinions are based off the fact that they are not good at the game, which as much as I joke about is fine but doesn't mean they should have any say in balance. Why should I not flaunt the fact that i'm better than anyone else posting about balance in this thread when it's the only indicator of skill that I can quickly use to show people that my opinions have some basis in reality. Do you want me to get in every single good player to come and tell you that you're wrong and i'm right, or is that more cause to ignore an objectively right opinion because your own lack of skill inhibits your understanding of it?

[imisshotmail]

You can dislike me as a person all you want but the facts are that I have more experience as a skilled player than anybody disagreeing with me, more experience as an item balancer than even the ones who are currently doing it, more experience at being objective and not blatantly supporting my own class by the fact that I always have called for nerfs to Cavalry which is the class I mostly play because I believe it to be overpowered.

You can believe what you want and let this game get worse, or actually listen to the opinions of someone who is objectively right.

[Gravoth_iii]

(click to show/hide)

First of all I showed Shik the OP of this thread to show him how terrible cRPG balancing has got since he has been gone, and he read it and posted that.

Second of all 'the death of heavy cavalry'?, you mean the balancing of the most overpowered class in the game since forever and still is? It was and is always the strongest class and every good player who I respect knows this, the changes to the class just tried to add some semblance of fairness to a fairly ridiculous concept for a class in a multiplayer game.

I have posted purely objective balancing in the past but people read it, don't agree with the statements and then post their own blatantly wrong opinions in reply at an attempt to prove me wrong, when their opinions are based off the fact that they are not good at the game, which as much as I joke about is fine but doesn't mean they should have any say in balance. Why should I not flaunt the fact that i'm better than anyone else posting about balance in this thread when it's the only indicator of skill that I can quickly use to show people that my opinions have some basis in reality. Do you want me to get in every single good player to come and tell you that you're wrong and i'm right, or is that more cause to ignore an objectively right opinion because your own lack of skill inhibits your understanding of it?

Rough approach, but i agree with this guy. Especially on the heavy cav part.

[Butan]

Even ignoring your abraviseness and analyzing your point of views, you seem like someone who does not understand the concept of "point of view".
Game balancing isnt maths, and being extremely skilled does not mean being right about how the game should function, only gives you a good grasp about how it could this way or the other.
Your concept of the game differs of those who are currently in charge, of which you are no longer, you can only try to influence them by communicating with them as every other player out there, and your current approach will give you 0 chance at that, this is plain as fucking day.

I dont see why you keep posting except to stroke your own ego which seems in need of being adjusted.

[imisshotmail]

Even ignoring your abraviseness and analyzing your point of views, you seem like someone who does not understand the concept of "point of view".
Game balancing isnt maths, and being extremely skilled does not mean being right about how the game should function, only gives you a good grasp about how it could this way or the other.
Your concept of the game differs of those who are currently in charge, of which you are no longer, you can only try to influence them by communicating with them as every other player out there, and your current approach will give you 0 chance at that, this is plain as fucking day.

I dont see why you keep posting except to stroke your own ego which seems in need of being adjusted.

Multiplayer game balance is about balancing around the highest tiers of play for the highest skilled players. Any other type fails if you want a competitive balanced game as has been proven many times over. You do not have to be one of best players to be able to objectively balance around them but it's painfully obvious that no one in this community is able to do that, and it is no coincidence that the majority of good players have similar opinions, which sometimes vastly different than those of the rest of the player base. I'm not going to suck up to people who are wrong just because they're in some arbitrary position of power in an online game and anyone who does that is a very sad person. If people want to ruin the game to satisfy their own ego about being unable to accept they're wrong that's fine by me.

[imisshotmail]

I respect the opinions of other players when they can put down their thoughts on why something should be changed in a way that truly makes sense instead of what most players do, being a high skill player adds more credibility to those opinions but it isn't the be and end all. Almost all the people that I see here make posts that make no sense, while also not being a skilled player. For all the talk of me just giving my point of view I gave a real (if short) description earlier in the thread about why reducing accuracy for ranged as opposed to damage is bad for balance, and I don't think anybody can disagree with that if they're being honest.

[Jarold]

I've never felt like I've been hit too early during an animation, but after the patch i'm constantly getting hit before the animation even nears me! wtf.

[Nightingale]

I've never felt like I've been hit too early during an animation, but after the patch i'm constantly getting hit before the animation even nears me! wtf.

but... we haven't changed anything yet.  :

[a_bear_irl]

Even ignoring your abraviseness and analyzing your point of views, you seem like someone who does not understand the concept of "point of view".
Game balancing isnt maths, and being extremely skilled does not mean being right about how the game should function, only gives you a good grasp about how it could this way or the other.
Your concept of the game differs of those who are currently in charge, of which you are no longer, you can only try to influence them by communicating with them as every other player out there, and your current approach will give you 0 chance at that, this is plain as fucking day.

I dont see why you keep posting except to stroke your own ego which seems in need of being adjusted.

are starcraft 2, league of legends, dota etc balanced around mid-level pubs or are they balanced around the competitive scene/top 1% pubs?

[McKli_PL]

My two cents, regarding melee:

1h is fine as it is. The change to the right swing in particular was a good buff; that animation is so much more useful now, where as the old right swing was just an s-key swing. Reverting the 1h buffs will make the class even less appealing in comparison to 2h and polearm. The balance between 1h, polearm and 2h is decent at the moment, no need for more nerfs.

I'm not seeing any of these instant hits you're talking about either. Good players move into their swings and know how to hit as early as possible. Left swing while aiming low is fast to connect, but you can always see the animation starting and have time to put the block up. When I miss a block, It's my own fault (apart from when playing on NA with 200 ping ), not something that can be blamed on game mechanics. This is a skill based game, some people react faster than others, some people take years to reach their skill cap, others reach it in months. Unfortunately a lot of people prefer to blame game mechanics, server lag, or whatever, instead of being patient and spending hundreds of hours becoming familiar with the animations like all the top tier players have.

We should all know by now that there are no new players, so making balance changes because of the steep learning curve for new players doesn't make any sense. It's too hard to get new people interested in a mod for a 6 year old game with terrible graphics. But removing the turn rate nerf (among other things) might get some old players back.

TLDR: Rewarding, skill based combat is why people still play this 6 year old game despite some of its flaws; don't make things easier for all the people complaining on the forums, because they'll start complaining about the next thing that kills them, as we have seen so many times before.

+1000000000000000

and

Multiplayer game balance is about balancing around the highest tiers of play for the highest skilled players. Any other type fails if you want a competitive balanced game as has been proven many times over. You do not have to be one of best players to be able to objectively balance around them but it's painfully obvious that no one in this community is able to do that, and it is no coincidence that the majority of good players have similar opinions, which sometimes vastly different than those of the rest of the player base. I'm not going to suck up to people who are wrong just because they're in some arbitrary position of power in an online game and anyone who does that is a very sad person. If people want to ruin the game to satisfy their own ego about being unable to accept they're wrong that's fine by me.

+10000000000000000 wow voice of reason on crpg forum, but why let's go with 'qq qq nerf them buff me!'

[MURDERTRON]

Remove nudge, and roll.  Unless you can find a good way to slow down and reduce roll distance as well as get rid of the invincibility frames.

[Gurgumul]

Remove nudge

no