We Are Reverting

[MURDERTRON]

The IF patch and the recent bow changes have made non-shield AGI builds worthless.  It used to be that I could speed around with a Bec and 18/30 with no IF and run down every archer I saw and murder him brutally.  Now, the same build has a much slower walking speed, not sure what was changed but it seems like both acceleration and top speed are slower.  Couple that with the fact that archers can't miss now and do insane damage and agi builds are all but useless.

TLDR: Lower the requirement for long maul back to 18.

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

In addition Agi builds don't seem that much faster than Str builds at the moment. Playing as a ninja with 18/33 I couldn't really get away from people with much heavier builds. It wasn't like that in the level 30 days. I don't know if Athletics gets less effective the higher it gets but that's how it feels.

Might also be to do with IF reducing effective weight of armour.

[Blackbow]

The IF patch and the recent bow changes have made non-shield AGI builds worthless.  It used to be that I could speed around with a Bec and 18/30 with no IF and run down every archer I saw and murder him brutally.  Now, the same build has a much slower walking speed, not sure what was changed but it seems like both acceleration and top speed are slower.  Couple that with the fact that archers can't miss now and do insane damage and agi builds are all but useless.

TLDR: Lower the requirement for long maul back to 18.

In addition Agi builds don't seem that much faster than Str builds at the moment. Playing as a ninja with 18/33 I couldn't really get away from people with much heavier builds. It wasn't like that in the level 30 days. I don't know if Athletics gets less effective the higher it gets but that's how it feels.

Might also be to do with IF reducing effective weight of armour.

that's sad because the problem you describe here could have been fixed with the incoming patch but sadly we will never see it...

-so i hope to see the if fixed because IF allow you to wear heavy armor with barely no influence on your moving/swing speed.
my archer 18/27 build is slower than my pole 24/21

-if xbows are coming back i want to see the xbow reloading speed nerfed, the speed is rly too close of the bows...

- i want to see the animation speed of all kind of weapon adjusted because actualy animation speed of pole/2h/1h is exactly the same
what about fix those flamberge spaming at katana speed ?

everything is broken and the only guy who tried to fix it have been asked to stop ... that's a pure shame! rly!
because let's be honest there is nobody to fix crpg actualy.
and sry but rico and Elderly Woman are both xbowers and also our new items balancer and i highly doubt of their impartiality about reverting this patch

so rico and elderly woman i want to see you balance xbows not simply put them back in easy mode op style !
and i rly point at the reloading speed !!!

[Gravoth_iii]

want to see the animation speed of all kind of weapon adjusted because actualy animation speed of pole/2h/1h is exactly the same
what about fix those flamberge spaming at katana speed ?

wat

[hellou]

Before you do something you should first set goal you want to reach!

Is it:
1. More players from native to crpg
Then you need to combine native combat with char development from chadz.
Just replace crpg combat with native = profit.

2. Realistic gameplay
Is it realistic to block with wodden axe a sword? Most people are not ready for realistic mechanics.

3. Common sense combat
Swing should be faster then turn rate, no autistic movements, no helicopters, no turn into friendly swings.
No exploit builds like I have this woode staff and I beat to death every knight in plate or throwing lances macro switch secondary attack.
--------------------------------



Imo all the change Paul/Urist did in past make people rage because f.ex. everything near you disable your swings, like Waradin wrote in another thread this mod made him aggressive person.
I think a mod should make people feel good!

[Dupre]

that's sad because the problem you describe here could have been fixed with the incoming patch but sadly we will never see it...

-so i hope to see the if fixed because IF allow you to wear heavy armor with barely no influence on your moving/swing speed.
my archer 18/27 build is slower than my pole 24/21

-if xbows are coming back i want to see the xbow reloading speed nerfed, the speed is rly too close of the bows...

- i want to see the animation speed of all kind of weapon adjusted because actualy animation speed of pole/2h/1h is exactly the same
what about fix those flamberge spaming at katana speed ?

everything is broken and the only guy who tried to fix it have been asked to stop ... that's a pure shame! rly!
because let's be honest there is nobody to fix crpg actualy.
and sry but rico and Elderly Woman are both xbowers and also our new items balancer and i highly doubt of their impartiality about reverting this patch

so rico and elderly woman i want to see you balance xbows not simply put them back in easy mode op style !
and i rly point at the reloading speed !!!

Raylin's patch is in now. Last patch was recently pushed through. So now you can test his changes, but still most likely going to revert.

I never asked Raylin to stop working on the mod. I kindly told him that we can't keep patching 2-3 times a week and that i'm going to give other people an opportunity. Raylin has some good ideas but his plan was poorly put together(multiple fix patches which helped with crashing the whole mod for a month) and when working on crpg, you learn to take one small step a time when making changes, if you don't, most likely crashes and bugs, but he wanted to make big changes which isn't bad but you must understand everything else that is going to come with it.  Rico and elderly came to me with  more of a solid plan for balance and patching, so I told Raylin i'm going to give Rico and Elderly a opportunity to balance, just like I did for Raylin in the past. I also told Raylin he can communicate with Rico and Elderly to still work on balancing but it has to be a team thing now and communication with the community has to also happen.

 I really appreciate all Raylin's work and i'm sure everyone in the community also really appreciates it too. Raylin is always more and welcome to come back.

[Gurnisson]

wat

A scrub making excuses

[Turkhammer]

Strength can be overcome with Guerrilla tactics, that was proven clearly in Vietnam and in Afghanistan (USA vs Vietnam,

Just to correct your analogy.  The US won every battle in Viet Nam versus the Viet Cong or NVA regulars.  The war lasted so long with no clear results and constant losses of men and money that the country and the population grew sick and tired of it and pulled out.  To have your analogy be correct Strength builds would win every round but grow tired of playing endless rounds and quit.

[Blackbow]

Raylin's patch is in now. Last patch was recently pushed through. So now you can test his changes, but still most likely going to revert.

I never asked Raylin to stop working on the mod. I kindly told him that we can't keep patching 2-3 times a week and that i'm going to give other people an opportunity. Raylin has some good ideas but his plan was poorly put together(multiple fix patches which helped with crashing the whole mod for a month) and when working on crpg, you learn to take one small step a time when making changes, if you don't, most likely crashes and bugs, but he wanted to make big changes which isn't bad but you must understand everything else that is going to come with it.  Rico and elderly came to me with  more of a solid plan for balance and patching, so I told Raylin i'm going to give Rico and Elderly a opportunity to balance, just like I did for Raylin in the past. I also told Raylin he can communicate with Rico and Elderly to still work on balancing but it has to be a team thing now and communication with the community has to also happen.

 I really appreciate all Raylin's work and i'm sure everyone in the community also really appreciates it too. Raylin is always more and welcome to come back.

So is it a revert or the last raylin patch ?
Havent pay attention to version number.
Because actualy the missile speed didnt change and we are like previous patch.


So it's about making patch who made it crash for a month ?
Any other patch will have same consequences ?

and i dont see any other way to balance the mod by doing step by step few patch, specialy without having no way to test change before.
if atleast we had a beta server or something... :'(

and honestly he had like 1 month to balance stuff, it's probably not enough time to fix all the mess in crpg.
it's not gonna work if each month we change of ppl...

dont take it bad it was my personal opinion.

[Dupre]

Raylin's patch is in now. Last patch was recently pushed through. So now you can test his changes, but still most likely going to revert.

I never asked Raylin to stop working on the mod. I kindly told him that we can't keep patching 2-3 times a week and that i'm going to give other people an opportunity. Raylin has some good ideas but his plan was poorly put together(multiple fix patches which helped with crashing the whole mod for a month) and when working on crpg, you learn to take one small step a time when making changes, if you don't, most likely crashes and bugs, but he wanted to make big changes which isn't bad but you must understand everything else that is going to come with it.  Rico and elderly came to me with  more of a solid plan for balance and patching, so I told Raylin i'm going to give Rico and Elderly a opportunity to balance, just like I did for Raylin in the past. I also told Raylin he can communicate with Rico and Elderly to still work on balancing but it has to be a team thing now and communication with the community has to also happen.

 I really appreciate all Raylin's work and i'm sure everyone in the community also really appreciates it too. Raylin is always more and welcome to come back.

[Butan]

Looking forward to all the changes announced. It's good to have people still helping cRPG.

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

tbh I find crossbows are even more OP at this point. I can easily get headshots from across the map without even a tiny amount of effort whereas before hand it'd take me a good couple second of aiming and 3-5 shots of trying to land a body shot from the same distance. Sure my MW Arb + MW Steel Bolts wont one hit anyone even with a headshot which takes a way from that OPness a bit but still. The reload times are also just stupid, taking like 8 seconds to reload my arb when archers can easily load their bows in under 2 seconds(some in under 1). Also if you were getting smashed on by 1h xbow hybrid builds you probably werent that good at the game lmao. Also who was running builds with 12 ath as a crossbow? You'd have to be like 18/36 to run that which doesnt seem like a good build by any standard. Most were running like 24/21 AFAIK.

[Gmnotutoo]

In addition Agi builds don't seem that much faster than Str builds at the moment. Playing as a ninja with 18/33 I couldn't really get away from people with much heavier builds. It wasn't like that in the level 30 days. I don't know if Athletics gets less effective the higher it gets but that's how it feels.

Might also be to do with IF reducing effective weight of armour.

Agility is balanced around s-key whores and ranged.

For the high agility builds that just want to fight and move quicker in battle it is horribly balanced. Your speed has an equal chance to work against you depending on mistakes in footwork. There is no real reward for playing high agility other than movement speed and you're right it does seem capped.

Also I really don't think there is a difference from having 200 wpf vs 150 of the same wpf. The few points of damage are not worth it when you can perform the same with a minimum wpf and get more power-strike which increases the damage a lot more.

[Turkhammer]

tbh I find crossbows are even more OP at this point. I can easily get headshots from across the map without even a tiny amount of effort whereas before hand it'd take me a good couple second of aiming and 3-5 shots of trying to land a body shot from the same distance. Sure my MW Arb + MW Steel Bolts wont one hit anyone even with a headshot which takes a way from that OPness a bit but still. The reload times are also just stupid, taking like 8 seconds to reload my arb when archers can easily load their bows in under 2 seconds(some in under 1). Also if you were getting smashed on by 1h xbow hybrid builds you probably werent that good at the game lmao. Also who was running builds with 12 ath as a crossbow? You'd have to be like 18/36 to run that which doesnt seem like a good build by any standard. Most were running like 24/21 AFAIK.

I don't find this at all.  At least with the hunting xbow, I find it very hard to even get a hit.  TBH bows should fire 3x faster than xbows.

[Kadeth]

My two cents, regarding melee:

1h is fine as it is. The change to the right swing in particular was a good buff; that animation is so much more useful now, where as the old right swing was just an s-key swing. Reverting the 1h buffs will make the class even less appealing in comparison to 2h and polearm. The balance between 1h, polearm and 2h is decent at the moment, no need for more nerfs.

I'm not seeing any of these instant hits you're talking about either. Good players move into their swings and know how to hit as early as possible. Left swing while aiming low is fast to connect, but you can always see the animation starting and have time to put the block up. When I miss a block, It's my own fault (apart from when playing on NA with 200 ping ), not something that can be blamed on game mechanics. This is a skill based game, some people react faster than others, some people take years to reach their skill cap, others reach it in months. Unfortunately a lot of people prefer to blame game mechanics, server lag, or whatever, instead of being patient and spending hundreds of hours becoming familiar with the animations like all the top tier players have.

We should all know by now that there are no new players, so making balance changes because of the steep learning curve for new players doesn't make any sense. It's too hard to get new people interested in a mod for a 6 year old game with terrible graphics. But removing the turn rate nerf (among other things) might get some old players back.

TLDR: Rewarding, skill based combat is why people still play this 6 year old game despite some of its flaws; don't make things easier for all the people complaining on the forums, because they'll start complaining about the next thing that kills them, as we have seen so many times before.