How fucked is my build/How fucked is my build GONNA be?

[Sandersson Jankins]

hi

Ok, so I made a gimmicky as fuck build that I fell in love with right after the patch of destiny, or whatever you call it. You know, the one where the "standard" levels were raised far higher than they were previously.

So I'm 33-15 with 11 PS, 5 WM, 5 Ath, 2 Shield, but most importantly 0 IF. This used to work AMAZINGLY; I just use +3 transitional plate and heavy gaunts to compensate for the lack of IF.

Recently I've been made aware that the powers that be tied IF to proficiency so my shithead build won't work anymore. So, uh...just how bad is this build now? I still get plenty of oomph on folks when I hit them, but I seem to swing quite slower now. I've got to determine just how many cocks I'm sucking and how much of my poor performance can be chalked up to the build.

Right, so when I retire in a dozen mil XP or so, I'm looking to go STR-based shielder. I won't go any lower than 27 strength; is there any real w ay to have a viable shielder with 30 strength? Keep in mind that when in combat against fewer than 3 people and no present ranged I'll be dropping my shield. I absolutely love dueling and fighting without it. I'm aware that I WILL get backpedaled hard, especially with my preference to short+quick weapons. If someone is mercilessly backpedalling me, I'm going to convince myself now (won't work like this in-game mostly lol) that I'll just turn and fight someone else.

thoughts pls

[Malaclypse]

27/15 in lighter-ish (10-14kg) armor worked pretty well for me a few respecs ago. I could keep up with dudes in heavier armor and get more of a benefit from speed bonus- 9 PS with military cleaver was pretty brutal. At 35 this works out to a nearly perfect 9/8/5/5/5 split iirc (of course you could max IF there instead of shield).

If you're looking for a level 35 build that has at least 27 STR and stacks IF then this is it.

If you're okay with only having 2 shield skill still, then you could roll 30/15 10/4 IF/5/5/2 shield, but you'd still be lacking in IF and thereby taking a larger prof loss (though you'd be in better shape than you are with that current build).

You should try 21/21 and 24/18 out on an STF though mate.
.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I still have the ideology/theory crafted that IF shouldn't be gotten to become tankier; if I'm getting hit then I am doing it wrong. I can always become better at footwork, blocking, or chambering.

Of course this isn't very practical, but I'm stuck to it. No IF unless I need it to maintain proficiency.

I wonder if this ambiguous mechanic has a formula somewhere telling me how little IF I can get away with in certain armour/str setups?

[Sparvico]

As I understand it you're not really penalized for not taking IF, not directly anyhow. For some time in cRPG your effective wpf has differed from your stated wpf on the stats page. Generally speaking your effective wpf will be less than your stated wpf based on how heavy your armor/weapon set up is. The exact values were altered with the patch of destiny, or shortly thereafter. Basically making the encumbrance from heavy armor more drastic the heavier your armor got, while not affecting light armor nearly as much. I think.

Anyhow. IF will buff your effective wpf, but only when you are over a certain amount of equipment weight in the first place. Even so, the main reason to take IF is still it's HP buff. If you really want drastically more wpf than take agi and WM.

I think that 27/18 or 27/15 are both builds you would probably enjoy. Though I would take 27/18 if you're going heavy armor, as IF does nothing for the ath penalty as I recall. Also that assumes level 35+.

And may I suggest not retiring your super high level char but instead switching strat heros and using a free alt char respec on him. I seriously doubt you'll ever get back up to level 37 before the mod dies, and the build you want really only shines at level 36-37. If you're in desperate need of looms that's a different matter, but I'd trade a level 37 char for a couple MW items in a heartbeat.

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

IF just increases the max amount of weight you can have without any WPF dip. I think the equation is IF+STR/3. So With your build anything past 10 weight will give you WPF loss. With my mains build of 36/0 with 12 IF I'd have 24 weight total before losing any. So it basically isnt even worth factoring in IMO since you dont even need WPF to peform good.

[CALAMARI]

IF reduces armor weight penalties against wpf. Each point takes away 2kg. If you're wearing anything heavier than Lamellar Vest with mail accessories then you're better off with the IF. 6IF (12kg reduction against weight penalty and 12 hp) > 1 wpf and 1 athl. Well, on paper at least, sidestrafe glance and "S"key best key are going to win 90% of the time. Take the 1 athl, wear the plate, and fuck the wpf.

Don't quote me but I think the formula is: 6 base + str/3 + if(2) = Max armor weight before penalty.

[Rico]

I still have the ideology/theory crafted that IF shouldn't be gotten to become tankier; if I'm getting hit then I am doing it wrong.

Then STR builds might not be the best choice for you.

AGI gameplay is about using your high Athletics to avoid ever getting hit by quickly moving in and out of range. You can use a short blunt or pierce weapon instead of a long cut based weapon; your damage will automatically stay roughly the same because more weapon choices become viable and WPF slightly increases damage and dramatically decreases the number of failed attacks which are blocked in time, bounce off armor or don't connect before the enemy hits you.

Unless you go for extreme STR or extreme AGI variations, a STR build or an AGI build doesn't influence your damage as much as your source of survivability. STR and IF increase the number of mistakes you can make, AGI decreases the number of mistakes you WILL make.

[Yeldur]

hi

Ok, so I made a gimmicky as fuck build that I fell in love with right after the patch of destiny, or whatever you call it. You know, the one where the "standard" levels were raised far higher than they were previously.

So I'm 33-15 with 11 PS, 5 WM, 5 Ath, 2 Shield, but most importantly 0 IF. This used to work AMAZINGLY; I just use +3 transitional plate and heavy gaunts to compensate for the lack of IF.

Recently I've been made aware that the powers that be tied IF to proficiency so my shithead build won't work anymore. So, uh...just how bad is this build now? I still get plenty of oomph on folks when I hit them, but I seem to swing quite slower now. I've got to determine just how many cocks I'm sucking and how much of my poor performance can be chalked up to the build.

Right, so when I retire in a dozen mil XP or so, I'm looking to go STR-based shielder. I won't go any lower than 27 strength; is there any real w ay to have a viable shielder with 30 strength? Keep in mind that when in combat against fewer than 3 people and no present ranged I'll be dropping my shield. I absolutely love dueling and fighting without it. I'm aware that I WILL get backpedaled hard, especially with my preference to short+quick weapons. If someone is mercilessly backpedalling me, I'm going to convince myself now (won't work like this in-game mostly lol) that I'll just turn and fight someone else.

thoughts pls

STR based shielder? I got you.
lvl 35
27/15

139 One Handed
5 WM
5 ATH
8 IF
5 SHIELD
9 PS

This build works fucking amazingly with a steel pick/sword combo.
Ever since I found this build it's the only shielder build I play, it's so god damned good.


Also, if you don't want IF, don't play STR builds, it's that simple. The whole point of STR is to become more tanky, if you don't place in the TANK attribute you've just reduced yourself to a half complete class, if you don't like IF, play AGI and not STR.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I'm probably not going to be able to explain my love for STR no-IF builds. Especially to the EU folks.

I really, REALLY like to hit hard. And I'm always wearing +3 transitional plate and +3 heavy gaunts. I found that without any IF, but stacking STR, I had a perfectly acceptable level of punishment I could take, and could add other skills like a bit of shield but more importantly allowing me an extra level of PS.

The feeling of using a +3 longspear and literally 1-shotting other armoured folks in the head if good speed bonus is present because of your 11 PS is not something I'm able to give up. Sure, I won't really be able to 1-shot folks as a 1h, but the principle remains.

Whew, just realized that on my 33-15 build I'm allowed a solid 17 weight before penalty. I generally wear around 30, not including my weapon(s).

[Jona]

I'm probably not going to be able to explain my love for STR no-IF builds. Especially to the EU folks.

I really, REALLY like to hit hard. And I'm always wearing +3 transitional plate and +3 heavy gaunts. I found that without any IF, but stacking STR, I had a perfectly acceptable level of punishment I could take, and could add other skills like a bit of shield but more importantly allowing me an extra level of PS.

The feeling of using a +3 longspear and literally 1-shotting other armoured folks in the head if good speed bonus is present because of your 11 PS is not something I'm able to give up. Sure, I won't really be able to 1-shot folks as a 1h, but the principle remains.

Whew, just realized that on my 33-15 build I'm allowed a solid 17 weight before penalty. I generally wear around 30, not including my weapon(s).

I've got a similar love for the ultra glass cannon build of 21-27 hoplite. Quick, but also able to hit insanely hard (cuz speed bonus is pretty whacky). However speed bonus works both ways, leading to many 1-shots not being in my favor. When I wear my light cloth armor, I have no wpf penalty, and can spam like it's nobody's business. However, using even my kuyak armor loadout significantly hampers my swing speed with its total weight being 17. I can only really use the fastest of weapons with my rus scale armor set since at that point the swing speed is pretty poor, with any well-made str build being able to swing at least as quickly as me, if not faster, and there goes one of the main purposes of my build. Now, the bottom line is that we're talking about a difference of a few milliseconds in swing speed overall, and it usually isn't something you can really notice just by looking at it, but I find that when I try to outswing someone with heavier armor, I'll almost always lose since I'm used to the swinging speed of my lower armor that I use far more often... at the end of the day it doesn't matter if wearing super heavy armor makes you swing 1ms or 20ms slower, it all depends on what you're used to, really. If you know exactly how slow your swing is gonna be, you'll be way better off than someone like me who foolishly uses one armor set 99% of the time and therefore can't adjust to the one I wear 1% of the time.

Tl;dr: Unless you actually feel yourself messing up and being unable to judge what your swing speed actually is, it kinda doesn't matter so long as you're doing okay. I've never worn something as heavy as your armor set, but I'd assume it has a significant impact on swing speed for sure.

[Yeldur]

I'm probably not going to be able to explain my love for STR no-IF builds. Especially to the EU folks.

I really, REALLY like to hit hard. And I'm always wearing +3 transitional plate and +3 heavy gaunts. I found that without any IF, but stacking STR, I had a perfectly acceptable level of punishment I could take, and could add other skills like a bit of shield but more importantly allowing me an extra level of PS.

The feeling of using a +3 longspear and literally 1-shotting other armoured folks in the head if good speed bonus is present because of your 11 PS is not something I'm able to give up. Sure, I won't really be able to 1-shot folks as a 1h, but the principle remains.

Whew, just realized that on my 33-15 build I'm allowed a solid 17 weight before penalty. I generally wear around 30, not including my weapon(s).

Then you should be prepared to have a very anti-speed build and have a much harder time at actually playing the game in itself, it's fine if you don't want to use IF, I can't stop you, but it is illogical to waste such a powerful attribute and not make use of it, especially with a STR build.

[Penitent]

How fucked is it?  Like, only 2 or 3 fucks.

You won't be super handicapped.  I mean, some people play without looms, or do really well with sub-tier weapons.  There was also a test done way back in the day that determined that "weapon speed" stat makes a lot more difference in swing speed than wpf does.  That may have changed, but I think it's hard coded.  I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If you want to min-max, then respec and adjust.  In the meantime though, don't sweat it.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Thanks for all the insight, folks.

I'm mostly confident by now that I've been grasping at straws to explain my decreased performance from days past. Obviously I couldn't have just gotten worse, right?!

I've also spent so much time in this sweaty, steamy plate armour that I don't really keep in mind that I'm using like 33 total weight in gear. It's no wonder that people aside from full-str plate dummies can outswing me.

I'm very eager for this shielder thing, especially since I should be at it in a week without any lost XP. Thanks 2 sparvico for the PROtip there.

27-18, h-h-here i go!

(click to show/hide)

i also consider doing less than 1.5:1 in any strat battle and less than 3:1 in NA1 doing terribly so im gay

[Mirliva]

I usually use 20-24 when I'm 35. It's a well-combinated build that u shall try. U can convert ur attribute points.

[Screaming Idiot]

So I'm 33-15 with 11 PS, 5 WM, 5 Ath, 2 Shield, but most importantly 0 IF. This used to work AMAZINGLY; I just use +3 transitional plate and heavy gaunts to compensate for the lack of IF.

Recently I've been made aware that the powers that be tied IF to proficiency so my shithead build won't work anymore. So, uh...just how bad is this build now? I still get plenty of oomph on folks when I hit them, but I seem to swing quite slower now. I've got to determine just how many cocks I'm sucking and how much of my poor performance can be chalked up to the build.

If you've got +3 body armour and gloves (hopefully +3 helm and boots as well, although I don't have these), then I would certainly take 0 IF. My current and favorite build is 33-15, with no IF and 2 shield. I've simply got too much strength and my +3 trans plate and heavy gaunts carry my ass through some hits.

If you don't have loomed armour and gloves, IF is much more reasonable to get.

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