Dev Blog #5 Combat

[Turkhammer]

Don't listen to the naysayers.  I say you're on the right track.  I've wanted a stamina system ever since seeing someone endlessly flailing with the old rock on a stick like he was waving a feather.  It won't be distracting at all.  I think players will very quickly get a feel for what they can do with each weapon and only occasionally refer to the meter after awhile.

[Vibe]

Hm, not a big fan of stamina, but I guess I'd have to test it myself to see how it feels.

One thing I can't imagine is these stances though, maybe I understood wrong but do you have to press RMB twice to change from example right stance to left stance and then block in left (1xRMB to switch stance from right to left, 1xRMB to block when you're in left stance)?

[Micah]

Hey! Good to see things are progressing and some things start crystalizing and also some new faces

Eventhough I still cant really well imagine how the combat will work or feel ... If stances will support or brake the combat flow or not.

Regarding the "combat system for everyone" question; I really cant remember when this ever was the big question tbh, while it was mostly more of a question of: who will the combat cater to the most. To the realism faction with historic accurate moves focus, the slashy action and speed faction with lots of effects and ninja feel, the immersive cinematic faction with most sceenic and epic appeareance, or nerdy complex and feature-packed style ... or what specific, balanced mix.

And i believe that this is one pretty important question to solve and to vocalize to the community for the benefit of the development and the whole pitch and the community evolution. Imo a clear vision of the goal is necessary at some point, so it becomes easier to decide whats the right or wrong path to go down; and for the community to have a better feel for where we are going and what to expect and what it is we are supporting - and what to possibly tell others about the game - or for some people to possibly bail out if its not their thing.

I have a little objection to another statement from chadz, which was, that combat should be "fair". I know it was not meant in this way, but still: combat has not to be fair and shouldnt be even ... it has to be challenging ... and balanced unfairness is an important component for an exciting game experiance imo. Reality isnt fair, cRPG isnt fair ... and thats what makes it fun and interresting imo.

In conjunction with the prior question of "who will the game cater to most", where different expectations can be assumed from the players - like lower expected  learning courves and alot of action for slashy game but high expected learning curve with less explosive effects for nerdy style game etc.; I like to add, that also the expected "fairness level" aka. "challenge level" certainly varies between the different styles and that this should be included into the calculation for the gameplay and combat system.

Anbyhow, thanks alot for the nice update ... alot of interesting details and good look at the current state of the project, keep up the good work

[Golem]

You still have to work on the parry mechanism. Having to change your stance, with one click, and perform a parry, with another one, might be okay for duels, but will be too complex to do in large battles or ganks.
Also the stamina system, should be more about risk, imo.

(click to show/hide)

(=================)

The Edge
standard penalties , slowest stamina recovery, avoid this one
The Burnout
a little faster recovery then The Edge, but worse penalties,
The Rush
the sweetspot, highest stamina recovery, no penalties
The Comfort Zone
standard recovery speed, almost no penalties

...also the benefits from The Rush should be only available when you recover 90% of Stamina, after the first Rush.

[Yeldur]

Don't listen to the naysayers.  I say you're on the right track.  I've wanted a stamina system ever since seeing someone endlessly flailing with the old rock on a stick like he was waving a feather.  It won't be distracting at all.  I think players will very quickly get a feel for what they can do with each weapon and only occasionally refer to the meter after awhile.

In that aspect, I would agree, you're definitely right, you shouldn't be able to swing a long maul overhead constantly for the rest of eternity without some sort of backlash, but I still don't think stamina as a whole would add to the game in a positive way. Meh, I'd have to try the game out to know for sure, hopefully there's some sort of free test for everyone so we can get a feel for what the game is going to be like before it comes out for real (Similar to what the Battlefield series does)

[pogosan]

[Golem]

Don't worry about blocking a group of enemies people, just download the first autoblock that comes out.

Or just macro a double right click, yeah.

[kwhy]

so each stance has a set number of attacks looking at the pic for example

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each stance has a set number of attacks which can only be done while in that one stance.  So if your for example in the upper stance you can attack with what looks like three directions (left overheard, overhead, and right overhead) correct?  While in this upper stance you will *auto block* not holding any keys any attacks from the upper stance correct?   So that means you no longer hold right mouse button for blocks, but just have to be in the correct 1-4 different stances?

So does that mean there are still just 4 block directions then relating to 4 different stances or are there actual 8?

On attacking in order to change attack direction from lets say the upper stance and I want to swing low left I then have to change stance to left stance with the block key then attack or is it now setup so any attack just changes to that correct stance?

that is where I'm a bit confused.  I don't see very much mouse action from the video. 

as excited I am about trying this I'm a little worried it will be so much different than warband that not having to hold blocks will really make things difficult to transition between warband/bannerlord and m:bg (or whatever new title this is now).

otherwise the game is really coming along great and I can't wait to one day try it.

[chadz]

each stance has a set number of attacks which can only be done while in that one stance. 
yes
So if your for example in the upper stance you can attack with what looks like three directions (left overheard, overhead, and right overhead) correct? 
yes

While in this upper stance you will *auto block* not holding any keys any attacks from the upper stance correct?   
yes

So that means you no longer hold right mouse button for blocks, but just have to be in the correct 1-4 different stances?
yes

So does that mean there are still just 4 block directions then relating to 4 different stances or are there actual 8?
right now 7 (the blue dots), we removed the straight down parry as it looked bad and didn't make much sense

On attacking in order to change attack direction from lets say the upper stance and I want to swing low left I then have to change stance to left stance with the block key then attack or is it now setup so any attack just changes to that correct stance?
first, although it's a very fluid movement by holding RMB and then holding/tapping LMB. it's not any more difficult than straight attacking, and it's an intentional decision

that is where I'm a bit confused.  I don't see very much mouse action from the video. 

as excited I am about trying this I'm a little worried it will be so much different than warband that not having to hold blocks will really make things difficult to transition between warband/bannerlord and m:bg (or whatever new title this is now).
we're not trying to make a different warband. it's a different game. with different combat that is, for me at least, way more fun. having said that, it's rather easy to get into it with a warband background

[Soulreaver]

that was so much better  , tbh i 'd like to see this type of combat with stamina
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[Gaz.Spencer]

In reality, 360 swing isn't very different from 7 or 8 attack directions, you've still got plenty of control, also, stances will make it more interesting. Tbh I honestly think the combat system looks amazing, and I'm definitely going to enjoy it. It looks very fluid, and fun. Great job guys.

[Gaz.Spencer]

You still have to work on the parry mechanism. Having to change your stance, with one click, and perform a parry, with another one, might be okay for duels, but will be too complex to do in large battles or ganks.
Also the stamina system, should be more about risk, imo.

(click to show/hide)

(=================)

The Edge
standard penalties , slowest stamina recovery, avoid this one
The Burnout
a little faster recovery then The Edge, but worse penalties,
The Rush
the sweetspot, highest stamina recovery, no penalties
The Comfort Zone
standard recovery speed, almost no penalties

...also the benefits from The Rush should be only available when you recover 90% of Stamina, after the first Rush.

Sorry for the double post, but I really wanted to mention something. In medieval warfare, it's impossible to take on more than 3 or so people by yourself, they would easily overpower you. It's not Hollywood where someone singlehandedly defeats an army. Of course having teammates to help you out is the main idea. I think this new combat system is much more realistic than some other medieval games.

[Golem]

IMO you should have all the attack directions in any stance accesible by just one click, but make the animation a bit longer if the character has to switch.
When you first introduced stances I thought we would have 8 directions for EACH and EVERY stance, making a total of 24 possible attacks, some with more reach, others faster. That would be way cooler.
Also replace heavy attacks with lounges, that cover distance quickly. Strong attacks are lame and don't make sense. If I wanna hit hard, I will put everything into it and it will overall be faster.

[MacX85]

IMO you should have all the attack directions in any stance accesible by just one click, but make the animation a bit longer if the character has to switch.
When you first introduced stances I thought we would have 8 directions for EACH and EVERY stance, making a total of 24 possible attacks, some with more reach, others faster. That would be way cooler.

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Maybe it should be this way:
When you're in the upper stance but want to stab you could either change your stance manually or directly try to launch a stab attack which makes your character go into lower stance but might come at a slight time loss because two things are done at the same time.

Also replace heavy attacks with lounges, that cover distance quickly. Strong attacks are lame and don't make sense. If I wanna hit hard, I will put everything into it and it will overall be faster.

I'm also not sold on light vs heavy attacks... Like in Skyrim? I'm not sure if I like that.

About Stamina:
I like it but someone rightly mentioned that having to watch a bar isn't that immersive.
You could indicate you stamina loss in another way... I think in Red Orchestra 2 your sight got blurry and your char got out of breath. Maybe there was a bar as well... I don't remember.
But it could only appear when your stamina is dropping. There's no need to see that bar all the time.

[Son Of Odin]

Aww yes. Cool stuff. Those stances make my historical accuracy dick hard. Fior di Battaglia much? This is every bit as great as I imagined it could be and then some.

Still, one important question remains unanswered!

Will there be horse poop? (For authenticity)

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