German girl speaks out about Refugee Crisis

[dagu807]

Haha, any turk has better german grammar than her.

Really?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3MvinY66r0

[Molly]

[...]
Everything remotely related to the refugee crisis sounds totally ridiculous. The arguments in favor of immigration are just as insane as the ones trying to restrict it. I have no idea what to believe anymore
[...]

I whole-heartedly agree and I said so several times already.
For some reason people tend to over read those parts of my posts constantly or are not reading them at all and assume. *shrugs*

[Tibe]

Now derive the conclusion's implication for the refugee crisis without sounding like a multi-culti hippie leftist, a right-wing scaremonger racist, an indecisive hanger-on or politically apathetic. You can't.

So pick your camp. Either you have a clear agenda that's clearly wrong, or an unclear agenda you can't use for anything.

I can try. *cough*

Basically accepting everyone from 3rd world countries into 1st world countries was an idiotic plan to begin with. A plan that had almost only cons and barely any pros to it. If you wanted to really help people in need, do it like Denmark for example. Accept people only after proper processing. Not yell out globaly "come one, come all", let everyone inside your country,  and than start the processing. Wtf are those people supposed to do til than. They will start getting more pissed with each passing day. The fact that women have a significantly lower standing in the places where they come from is also a massive downside.

What did I sound like?

[Tibe]

The yell that all syrians come was a real one. So everyone posed a syrian and ran for the border. Who would have thought huh? Now we even have africans posing as Syrians.

What do you mean selfish and happy that someone else takes the burden? Most of the countries in Europe were against immigration from the start. And Germany and Sweden just took everybody in and hoped it would get sorted on its own. Well it didnt. You seriuslly think Eastern Europe nations "helping" and taking 3rd world people into their own extremely intolerant population is a really good idea?  Wtf?  Why would you force random people down their throats if they dont want to. Creating a more divided and problematic society than ever. Its really ignorant of you to even consider it.  Its like you are saying "fck your intolerance and accept these people, god damn it, deal with it". I mean, good god, why? There have been like 3 attempts to burn the single refugeecenter in my country down.

And there is no humanitarian aspect. 1/5 of them do need help, the rest are, well, just here because they now can. Ask any african or non-syrian. Syria was not a 3rd world country. Infact they were actually pretty advanced before the crysis. And I do pitty them and admit the quest to help was quite noble. However unfortunately the type of help that Europeans promised them was incredibly flawed one. With shitty results to euros and shitty results to syrians.

[dagu807]

Yeah this is totally legit

Probably more legit than the fairy tale wonderland you want to live in.

[Admerius]

Now derive the conclusion's implication for the refugee crisis without sounding like a multi-culti hippie leftist, a right-wing scaremonger racist, an indecisive hanger-on or politically apathetic. You can't.

So pick your camp. Either you have a clear agenda that's clearly wrong, or an unclear agenda you can't use for anything.

Default position that should be adopted asap IMO:
We're not letting anyone in until we have a proper integration system up and running to deal with these volumes.
It is criminal to allow more immigrants in than we can integrate, we are doing them a disservice.
Close the borders(exception: humanitarian refugees(not economic etc.))
finance proper integration,
deport those that "beyond reasonable doubt" doesn't want to integrate.

This needs a referedum, a nation/EU-wide vote:
On how much resources should be diverted to integration/immigration.
Something like:
1.Extreme left example: Nationalize banks and the biggest companies and use the wealth to open the borders to anyone that claims refugee satus!
2.Leftist side examples: We must be able to take in everyone! Tax the rich, the companies, increase progressive tax pressure maybe even a financial transaction tax.
3."Centrist" example: We should be able to receive more than our current volumes by; raising consumption tax a little, lend some money and privatize many aspects of the integration institutions(state-funded, but privately owned).
4.Right example: Cap immigration asap to between 0,01% and 0,1% of total population, "real" refugees are welcome here on our terms. Cut the taxes and let charities take over, that way the ones that want to receive more refugees can donate to charities instead of coercing everyone through increased tax pressure.
5.Extreme right: Stop the immigration now, institute a new citizenship level: "Immigrant-citizen" who are in effect not full citizens for 5-20 year and they should be observed much more. Use immigration funds to fund police and of course the military.
On top of that: military assets should be allowed to use in law enforcement vs. "immigrant-citizens" much more easily than vs. regular citizens.

Depending on the specific details, in the different examples of proposals I listed, I'm either (2)left or (4)right, not centrist or any of the extremes.

[Molly]

Poland gets every year 13 billion € from the EU.

Why?

[Falka]

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Poland gets every year 13 billion € from the EU.

Why?

Wut? What's that got to do with... anything?

[Kalam]

My conclusion:
In order to minimize risk: be a "mild racist"(aka. suspicious, alert etc.) but do not initiate illegal actions based on this "mild racism"
Remember that we are all individuals, which means that whenever possible(always in an ideal world) each person should be assessed as such.

Most of us are already implicitly racist in some way, unless you were raised in a fully integrated environment surrounded by people from diverse origins. It's usually a question of training yourself out of it and recognizing when it's weighting your decisions, like any other bias.

No one really complains about the huge positive bias that tall people with symmetric faces receive over their lifetimes.

'Western civilization' should probably focus on integration in regards to migrants, but there's too much negative baggage associated with the concept for it to be politically viable, until, apparently, you hit another extreme.

Why do some concepts suffer from association with reviled figures and movements in history but not others?

I don't know. Vegetarianism seems to have survived contact with that one guy. Integration could probably be extremely effective if it used the advances in understanding we've had regarding learning in the last forty years.

Anyway, you should make a single thread if you want to discuss (though 'discuss' seems to mean 'say something for the purpose of reinforcement') Muslims in Europe or the Refugee Crisis.

[Molly]

Depending on the specific details, in the different examples of proposals I listed, I'm either (2)left or (4)right, not centrist or any of the extremes.

4.Right example: Cap immigration asap to between 0,01% and 0,1% of total population, "real" refugees are welcome here on our terms. Cut the taxes and let charities take over, that way the ones that want to receive more refugees can donate to charities instead of coercing everyone through increased tax pressure.

Poland gets every year 13 billion € from the EU.

Why?

I dare to say I personally benefit from spending my taxes into integration in Germany way more than giving it to Falka.
Why does it seem to be considered better invested in Poland tho?

Besides, politician always claimed that the EU is based on the principle of solidarity.
But Poland saying "Nope. Not gonna take any immigrants, Germany!" isn't very nice.

My suggestion: Either you all take your fair share of those people or you don't get all these juicy subventions any more. Sounds like a fair deal to me.

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[Tibe]

I dare to say I personally benefit from spending my taxes into integration in Germany way more than giving it to Falka.
Why does it seem to be considered better invested in Poland tho?

Besides, politician always claimed that the EU is based on the principle of solidarity.
But Poland saying "Nope. Not gonna take any immigrants, Germany!" isn't very nice.

My suggestion: Either you all take your fair share of those people or you don't get all these juicy subventions any more. Sounds like a fair deal to me.

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Because Poland and Eastern-EU rebuilt their societies raped by USSR thanks to that EU money. In a lot of ways the ex-USSR countries have a relatively decent economy and strong industries because of it. And in a lot of ways it has repayed to you aswell. Cause Poland is related and influences the overall wealth of the region.

I never knew accepting EU money equaled unquestionable loyalty. Never knew you were that shitty and considered other countires to be some form of vassals to your country because of it. We dont have to help shit. Especially when the immigrationcrysis is entirely Germanies and Swedens own fault. Immigrants have always stood infront of Europes borders. And war has always gone on in the Middle-East. It became instantly an absolutely chaotic crysis for Europe the moment you tolerant "helping" assholes decided it would be a really polite thing to open the borders for everybody. Conqrats, the word of how "friendly" Europe is now, has even reached the darkest parts of Africa.

[Falka]

Besides, politician always claimed that the EU is based on the principle of solidarity.
But Poland saying "Nope. Not gonna take any immigrants, Germany!" isn't very nice.

As I said long time ago

I think that Poland has no moral right to vote against immigration, cause in last decade we have sent a few milions of people to UK, Ireland and Germany

And that's not true what you say. Polish government - the previous one - actually said "Yes, bring them in, Nazis". Currently rulling party is against taking in muslim immigrants (they're willing to take christian immigrants from Syria), but they already said Poland will honour all obligations undertaken by previous government.

I dare to say I personally benefit from spending my taxes into integration in Germany way more than giving it to Falka.
Why does it seem to be considered better invested in Poland tho?

My suggestion: Either you all take your fair share of those people or you don't get all these juicy subventions any more. Sounds like a fair deal to me.

Poland will probably become net payer when current financial framework will be finished, so in 2020. Until then, pacta sunt servanda. After that, sure, we can dissolve EU

PS. You really think that sending refugees to Poland or in general central-east european countries will solve the problem - any problem?  They're gonna be back at your doorstep in no time. Since 1990 circa 80 000 of refugees has come to Poland from Chechnya. Less than 5 000 stayed here, the rest of them moved along to western europe.

PS2. That was really poor Molly.

[Prpavi]

Probably more legit than the fairy tale wonderland you want to live in.

Aww shit looks like we got another wannabe army tough boy on the forum.

[dagu807]

Aww shit looks like we got another wannabe army tough boy on the forum.

Not wannabe army tough boy, just someone who acknowledges reality and knows this refugee thing will have a bad end for Europe.
I don't live in a sheltered society and I've seen a lot of non-european foreigners being in general untrustable to me and other austrians, but that is probably "hate speech" in your mind.
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt...

[Christo]

Reality hit hard, eh?

Yes.

Muslims very, very bad !!
Injustice!

Difficult game, muslims and hit hard.