Author Topic: Mordhau  (Read 45398 times)

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Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #195 on: May 20, 2019, 06:52:46 am »
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I deleted all the grunt voice files. My god, the game sounds so much more bearable now. I was getting genuinely triggered by the constant fucking grunting attacking made. Just a non-stop orchestra of "OOORG, UUUURGH, AAAAAARGH" all around you. So bad.
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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #196 on: May 20, 2019, 03:04:27 pm »
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Think I'm starting to change my mind about the 1vX, it's probably more doable in Mordhau than it is in WB. In WB high level 2v1s were basically entirely impossible (held attacks and absolutely zero designed 1vX mechanics saw to that), the insane 1vXs happened against normie zergs. In Mordhau 1vX is still very difficult against good players, but far more doable and happens sometimes.

https://clips.twitch.tv/KindPlacidTriangleKappaWealth

Here's one funny 1v4 where the #1 EU player wins while naked and with a meme weapon against a top tier Russian clan. He's done at least one 1v3-4 every time I've watched him in scrims.


Totally realistic.

This is even worse than the idiotic lostabers on warband, jump around like a monkey, set your mouse sensetivity to max and again jump around like a monkey.

No thanks.

Also, he took 4 hits while naked, what a joke game.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #197 on: May 20, 2019, 03:13:25 pm »
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It's not meant to be a realism simulator, and upping your mouse sensitivity achieves nothing. He took four hits because he healed from kills in-between.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #198 on: May 20, 2019, 08:36:27 pm »
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https://clips.twitch.tv/SlickPiliableAlfalfaHassaanChop

1vXs like this would be 100% impossible against decent players in M&B, pretty insane.

And more on realism: any high skill ceiling melee slasher is not going to look pretty at high level of play, that's just how it is, the entire point is to fool someone very experienced at reading attacks and blocking into making a mistake, that's not going to happen with pretty, easily readable animations. That's why Bannerlord is going to blow if they really did nerf the feinting, it's going to drop the skill ceiling like a rock, and no one with any hand-eye coordination is going to ever die.
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #199 on: May 20, 2019, 10:08:24 pm »
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https://clips.twitch.tv/SlickPiliableAlfalfaHassaanChop

1vXs like this would be 100% impossible against decent players in M&B, pretty insane.

And more on realism: any high skill ceiling melee slasher is not going to look pretty at high level of play, that's just how it is, the entire point is to fool someone very experienced at reading attacks and blocking into making a mistake, that's not going to happen with pretty, easily readable animations. That's why Bannerlord is going to blow if they really did nerf the feinting, it's going to drop the skill ceiling like a rock, and no one with any hand-eye coordination is going to ever die.

I dont think that is impossible at all in M&B, at least not in crpg. I remember in a 5v5 tourney we fought against mercs, and i was alone vs 4 or 5, and i got them down to 1 then goofed. In native im garbo though compared to most, but people would pull som nasty shit in battle servers there too.
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Offline Yeldur

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #200 on: May 20, 2019, 11:03:10 pm »
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yeah after playing mordhau a bit longer there are some players in it who are very good, very hard to find though and pretty much exclusive to duel
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Offline Yeldur

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #201 on: May 20, 2019, 11:05:16 pm »
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https://clips.twitch.tv/SlickPiliableAlfalfaHassaanChop

1vXs like this would be 100% impossible against decent players in M&B, pretty insane.

And more on realism: any high skill ceiling melee slasher is not going to look pretty at high level of play, that's just how it is, the entire point is to fool someone very experienced at reading attacks and blocking into making a mistake, that's not going to happen with pretty, easily readable animations. That's why Bannerlord is going to blow if they really did nerf the feinting, it's going to drop the skill ceiling like a rock, and no one with any hand-eye coordination is going to ever die.

yeah that giru guy is fucking mental, love watching him play
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Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #202 on: May 21, 2019, 10:03:24 am »
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I dont think that is impossible at all in M&B, at least not in crpg. I remember in a 5v5 tourney we fought against mercs, and i was alone vs 4 or 5, and i got them down to 1 then goofed. In native im garbo though compared to most, but people would pull som nasty shit in battle servers there too.
Even a 1v2 is impossible against decent players, there's no slash-through (so the people with superior numbers can literally just spam attacks) and you can't do anything about two different attack directions. Two people can just spam you with different attacks and you're dead, or run at you with different held attacks and then release after you do. Meanwhile defense against just one person is very easy, especially when that one person can't do any kind of advanced feinting or they get stabbed, so all you have to do is block basic attacks.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 10:06:43 am by Xant »
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #203 on: May 21, 2019, 12:39:00 pm »
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Even a 1v2 is impossible against decent players, there's no slash-through (so the people with superior numbers can literally just spam attacks) and you can't do anything about two different attack directions. Two people can just spam you with different attacks and you're dead, or run at you with different held attacks and then release after you do. Meanwhile defense against just one person is very easy, especially when that one person can't do any kind of advanced feinting or they get stabbed, so all you have to do is block basic attacks.

Dude, 1v2 is literally impossible in mordhau against decent players, both players just need to block and swing when he drops his guard or to simply exhaust his stamina.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #204 on: May 21, 2019, 12:43:46 pm »
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Dude, 1v2 is literally impossible in mordhau against decent players, both players just need to block and swing when he drops his guard or to simply exhaust his stamina.
No it's not, I've shown several clips in this thread of top 10 players losing in 1vX to the #1. And you can't "just block", that assumes perfect reading of attacks, and what is "drops his guard"? To "just" exhaust someone's stamina again assumes perfect defense, which is not a thing in Mordhau.

Mordhau has actual 1vX mechanics that make it possible, albeit very difficult.
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #205 on: May 21, 2019, 12:49:22 pm »
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No it's not, I've shown several clips in this thread of top 10 players losing in 1vX to the #1. And you can't "just block", that assumes perfect reading of attacks, and what is "drops his guard"? To "just" exhaust someone's stamina again assumes perfect defense, which is not a thing in Mordhau.

Mordhau has actual 1vX mechanics that make it possible, albeit very difficult.

Yeah but dude, against decent players its impossible. Just like in warband against decent players its impossible. Even though its been done multiple times, its impossible.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #206 on: May 21, 2019, 01:02:40 pm »
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Yeah but dude, against decent players its impossible. Just like in warband against decent players its impossible. Even though its been done multiple times, its impossible.
So no actual arguments, just an anecdotal "but once 8 years ago I did it against bad players"? The mechanics are objective, and there is no way in M&B to fight two people who know what they're doing because the mechanics don't allow it. The mechanics in Mordhau allow it, because they've been specifically made to allow it, with things like being able to slash through enemies, becoming unflinchable on parry, being able to parry different directions at the same time, etc. These don't exist in M&B -- in addition to defense being already easier in M&B even 1v1 --, and it's ridiculously simple to kill anyone if you've got half a brain, it's literally a matter of spamming attacks at its simplest. Killing someone like Phyrex in a 2v1 was braindead easy.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 01:05:44 pm by Xant »
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #207 on: May 21, 2019, 01:22:51 pm »
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So no actual arguments, just an anecdotal "but once 8 years ago I did it against bad players"? The mechanics are objective, and there is no way in M&B to fight two people who know what they're doing because the mechanics don't allow it. The mechanics in Mordhau allow it, because they've been specifically made to allow it, with things like being able to slash through enemies, becoming unflinchable on parry, being able to parry different directions at the same time, etc. These don't exist in M&B, and it's ridiculously simple to kill anyone if you've got half a brain, it's literally a matter of spamming attacks at its simplest. Killing someone like Phyrex in a 2v1 was braindead easy.

That was my only anecdotal reference from an actual pro scene setting that i partook in, obviously 1vX wins happen like every map of the game. Phyrex was a duelist, his whole gameplan was about beating one player well, not fighting with or against multiple. I dont care about your objective gameplay mechanics that makes the game lean towards fighting multiple people, it doesnt matter. In reality you could very consistently win 1vX in warband. Fast turnrates would allow for switching targets quickly, blocks having no cooldown almost at all meant you could block 2 incoming swings if you just tapped it fast enough. If you see held attacks coming you could easily just go for a chamber and the other player would need very quick reactions to block it on time. And footwork is so incredibly strong in warband that you can maneuver into good positions and get breathing room.

Either way, mordhau is already kind of dead to me so it doesnt really matter much. I still rate native/old crpg way above it in terms of gameplay.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #208 on: May 21, 2019, 01:43:29 pm »
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That was my only anecdotal reference from an actual pro scene setting that i partook in, obviously 1vX wins happen like every map of the game. Phyrex was a duelist, his whole gameplan was about beating one player well, not fighting with or against multiple.

... You're not really calling a cRPG tournament a "pro scene setting", are you? cRPG has always been incredibly casual, with no actual competitive scene, and certainly nothing you could call a "pro scene" with a straight face.

Yes, Phyrex was a duelist, and being a good duelist is a requirement for beating multiple decent people. If you don't know, and can't execute, the mechanics well enough to beat ONE person, you're not going to be able to beat two. Phyrex was also, incidentally, one of the best 1vXers in the game, or at least the mod.
Quote
I dont care about your objective gameplay mechanics that makes the game lean towards fighting multiple people, it doesnt matter.
Yes, I suppose feelings are much more important than objective mechanics.

Quote
In reality you could very consistently win 1vX in warband. Fast turnrates would allow for switching targets quickly

Yes, you can consistently 1vX against bad players. You can switch targets all you want, it doesn't matter when you can't block two simultaneous attacks, and you don't regen health on kills. At the very minimum, you're eating one hit for every one you ditch out. And that's a very generous assumption, considering the only way to bypass a decent player's defense in WB is with good feints, which are not available to you in a 1vX.

Quote
If you see held attacks coming you could easily just go for a chamber and the other player would need very quick reactions to block it on time.

Come on now. You need "very quick reactions" to block chambers, now? Chambers in WB are literally useless against good players, there were exactly 0 of them in the 2017 native duel tournament for a reason. And even if we assume this person you chambered doesn't know how to react to chambers, you're still getting hit by the other person.

Quote
blocks having no cooldown almost at all meant you could block 2 incoming swings if you just tapped it fast enough.
Blocks do have a cooldown, and it's big enough that you're not going to be blocking attacks coming from two different directions if you're against players who have the faintest clue and aren't purposefully attacking completely out of sync.

Quote
And footwork is so incredibly strong in warband that you can maneuver into good positions and get breathing room.
What kind of magical footwork are you using to maneuver into good positions (what positions?) that isn't available to your opponents? Footwork is important in 1v1s, but almost all of that goes out the window in a 1vX (again, against people who have a clue, footwork could let you do a lot against the average player), where your only real options are S-keying and trying to run between your opponents, hoping they don't take a swing at you as you do.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 01:46:54 pm by Xant »
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Mordhau
« Reply #209 on: May 21, 2019, 01:54:56 pm »
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... You're not really calling a cRPG tournament a "pro scene setting", are you? cRPG has always been incredibly casual, with no actual competitive scene, and certainly nothing you could call a "pro scene" with a straight face.

Yes, Phyrex was a duelist, and being a good duelist is a requirement for beating multiple decent people. If you don't know, and can't execute, the mechanics well enough to beat ONE person, you're not going to be able to beat two. Phyrex was also, incidentally, one of the best 1vXers in the game, or at least the mod.Yes, I suppose feelings are much more important than objective mechanics.

Yes, you can consistently 1vX against bad players. You can switch targets all you want, it doesn't matter when you can't block two simultaneous attacks, and you don't regen health on kills. At the very minimum, you're eating one hit for every one you ditch out. And that's a very generous assumption, considering the only way to bypass a decent player's defense in WB is with good feints, which are not available to you in a 1vX.

Come on now. You need "very quick reactions" to block chambers, now? Chambers in WB are literally useless against good players, there were exactly 0 of them in the 2017 native duel tournament for a reason. And even if we assume this person you chambered doesn't know how to react to chambers, you're still getting hit by the other person.
Blocks do have a cooldown, and it's big enough that you're not going to be blocking attacks coming from two different directions if you're against players who have the faintest clue and aren't purposefully attacking completely out of sync.
What kind of magical footwork are you using to maneuver into good positions (what positions?) that isn't available to your opponents? Footwork is important in 1v1s, but almost all of that goes out the window in a 1vX, where your only real options are S-keying and trying to run between your opponents, hoping they don't take a swing at you as you do.

Pro scene is subjective to whats actually around, crpgs pro scene would be the tournament settings with the best clans because there wasnt anything else, i guess its not technically pro because you couldnt do it as a profession, but i assumed you would understand the point. And crpg has had some good players over the years so i thought it a fair estimate. Besides, how far do you have to go to find decent players? If you cant find them in an entire module of thousands of players i guess the argument doesnt matter because there are none to fill the position for ur assumptions.

And simultaneous attacks have to be very well timed in order for the blocker to not be able to block both, which can be tricky when footwork can throw off timings.

Blocking a chamber isnt difficult, however going for a held attack expecting the opponent do defend but instead he swings as a chamber attempt is very hard to react to.

Yes, sometimes things play out differently than they look on paper. You could technically block forever, however that isnt reality. But that doesnt matter to you because muh objective gameplay.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 02:03:14 pm by Gravoth_iii »
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