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Author Topic: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)  (Read 35156 times)

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Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #435 on: October 08, 2015, 06:48:45 pm »
0
It's very much tied up by a series of 'what ifs' on both sides:

- 'What if someone tries to murder me and my family?'
- 'What if someone is mentally ill?'
- 'What if a kid gets their hands on a gun?'
- 'What if the government becomes tyrannical and the peasantry need to rise up?'
- 'What if the US experienced a land invasion from a foreign power and the US military couldn't cope?'
- 'What if all the petty criminals still had guns and the police didn't effectively restrict the supply?'

It becomes very abstract when every single one of these 'what ifs' are extremely unlikely in an individual person's day-to-day existence. But on a grander scale, certain occurrences are much more likely than others - (eg. A mentally ill person or a child getting their hands on a gun is likely to happen on a semi-regular basis in a large country with an abundance of firearms).

You can pull stats on successful defensive uses of firearms and try to crunch some numbers regarding people murdered by guns and whether owning a gun makes you more or less likely to die in a home invasion, again the stats may not mean much to an individual person as there are so many variables in any given confrontation (and everyone likes to imagine that they're special and would absolutely win a firefight no matter the context or statistical likelihood). But when setting laws or determining the level of control, stats absolutely matter.

But what is ultimately more subjective is the personal risk-taking. If someone points a gun at you do you think 'I'm dead already, YOLO!' and try to reach for your own gun? It could feasibly work out for you in individual cases. Or do you think 'I stand a better chance of surviving if i'm unarmed/they think i'm unarmed' in a given situation? Or are you never going to be in a situation where someone has their gun on you without first having your own gun out? In that case do you whip your gun out every time you see anyone approach you? How long would you live doing that?

There are no reliable stats.  To my knowledge no one has scientifically tabulated the data necessary.

Don't you think that muggings, home invasions, spousal abuse/attempted murder also happen on a semi regular basis in a large country?

During a home invasion, street mugging, mass shooting, or other potentially violent encounter the unarmed person has placed his fate COMPLETELY in the hands of the perpetrator.  Quite a few people are unwilling to place themselves in that situation.   

Being armed in public requires an attitude that is difficult for many people to assume.  Many people assume that once they are carrying a weapon they need fear no one and not have to take any shit.  Quite the opposite is true.  A person carrying a concealed weapon must be the most humble of persons.  No rude hand gestures to other drivers, insults, which if unarmed would result in fisticuffs, must be ignored.  Confrontation assiduously avoided.  The use of a firearm to protect your life or that of your family is deadly serious and the threat to you must be deadly serious as well.

Heskey, you like to frame everything in black and white when in reality everything is situational.  If you are in a public place such as a theater or mall and a madman is methodically shooting people, if you are armed you'd better either flee or open fire on him because it relatively clear what is going to happen.  If you encounter a thug aiming a gun at you, I'd say you'd be better off trying to give him what he wants because your draw won't ever beat his trigger finger.  Being armed is not a talisman that wards off all evil magically.  It will not solve every possible encounter.



Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #436 on: October 08, 2015, 06:50:41 pm »
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I want my gun.

Offline AntiBlitz

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #437 on: October 08, 2015, 07:18:11 pm »
0
There are no reliable stats.  To my knowledge no one has scientifically tabulated the data necessary.

Don't you think that muggings, home invasions, spousal abuse/attempted murder also happen on a semi regular basis in a large country?

During a home invasion, street mugging, mass shooting, or other potentially violent encounter the unarmed person has placed his fate COMPLETELY in the hands of the perpetrator.  Quite a few people are unwilling to place themselves in that situation.   

Being armed in public requires an attitude that is difficult for many people to assume.  Many people assume that once they are carrying a weapon they need fear no one and not have to take any shit.  Quite the opposite is true.  A person carrying a concealed weapon must be the most humble of persons.  No rude hand gestures to other drivers, insults, which if unarmed would result in fisticuffs, must be ignored.  Confrontation assiduously avoided.  The use of a firearm to protect your life or that of your family is deadly serious and the threat to you must be deadly serious as well.

Heskey, you like to frame everything in black and white when in reality everything is situational.  If you are in a public place such as a theater or mall and a madman is methodically shooting people, if you are armed you'd better either flee or open fire on him because it relatively clear what is going to happen.  If you encounter a thug aiming a gun at you, I'd say you'd be better off trying to give him what he wants because your draw won't ever beat his trigger finger.  Being armed is not a talisman that wards off all evil magically.  It will not solve every possible encounter.

im sorry, are you trying to have a discussion, i cant seem to see past all these women with guns.

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Offline Angantyr

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #438 on: October 08, 2015, 07:27:05 pm »
0
nah we use axes and knifes.. guns for weak
It may be a luxury but guns are also viewed as cowardly here, same with other weapons. Knives are frequently used but it's mostly an immigrant weapon, like being many against one in a fight. Many natives have an honor codex of fighting 1 vs 1 but immigrants generally attack in groups and see nothing wrong with it (and I speak from plenty of experience here not prejudice), much like I see certain segments of blacks doing in the US.
40-50 years ago most didn't even continue beating people when they were down but considered the fight as ended. That has changed with my generation, also among natives.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 07:47:34 pm by Angantyr »

Offline Xant

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #439 on: October 08, 2015, 07:48:30 pm »
0
Immigrants (Somalis, Iraqis, other pakis) like to attack in large groups here as well. There's been a large culture shift in Finland overall, just like in Denmark the fights looked very different in the 70-90s, there was a "code of honor." Not to say things were better back then objectively, Helsinki was a lot more dangerous to walk than it is now. The difference is that if you get attacked now, it's probably by a group that's extremely desensitized to violence and there's a good chance you'll end up getting jumped on when down.
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Offline Bronto

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #440 on: October 08, 2015, 07:51:15 pm »
+2
That's it, I've notified the authorities, people are still arguing their points as if they matter to other people.

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Offline Angantyr

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #441 on: October 08, 2015, 08:02:53 pm »
+2



Offline Grytviken

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #442 on: October 08, 2015, 08:10:40 pm »
0
- 'What if the government becomes tyrannical and the peasantry need to rise up?'



Offline Tibe

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #443 on: October 08, 2015, 08:23:18 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)

The fact of how retarded all of this is(exept the babes with guns) and you dont understand it, makes me worry a bit about your mental health. As I understand it, your main claim from these silly images is that you do not have enough guns to stop gun violence. You need more guns to fight the gun violence. Like the awnser to fighting drugs is making and selling more drugs. And the awnser to ending all wars is having more wars. Kinda would work, from a retarded one-sided viewpoint. Mostly would still do more harm than good.

(click to show/hide)

Offline Thryn

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #444 on: October 08, 2015, 11:45:18 pm »
0
The fact of how retarded all of this is(exept the babes with guns) and you dont understand it, makes me worry a bit about your mental health. As I understand it, your main claim from these silly images is that you do not have enough guns to stop gun violence. You need more guns to fight the gun violence. Like the awnser to fighting drugs is making and selling more drugs. And the awnser to ending all wars is having more wars. Kinda would work, from a retarded one-sided viewpoint. Mostly would still do more harm than good.

(click to show/hide)

if some nignog with a mexican smuggled gun runs into my house, i'll be sure to grab my +3 katana

after all ranged kids can't block
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Offline AntiBlitz

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #445 on: October 09, 2015, 02:02:55 am »
+1
The fact of how retarded all of this is(exept the babes with guns) and you dont understand it, makes me worry a bit about your mental health. As I understand it, your main claim from these silly images is that you do not have enough guns to stop gun violence. You need more guns to fight the gun violence. Like the awnser to fighting drugs is making and selling more drugs. And the awnser to ending all wars is having more wars. Kinda would work, from a retarded one-sided viewpoint. Mostly would still do more harm than good.

(click to show/hide)

i have no idea when i said any of that, but hey, im the one with mental problems, okay, sure.  The images were just funny pics related to the topic, christ, cant even put up funny memes without it being some huge fucking debate.  Thats why i went to the chicks, everybody agrees with the chicks.
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #446 on: October 09, 2015, 02:11:07 am »
+1
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 02:39:59 am by Grytviken »

Offline Jeade

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #447 on: October 09, 2015, 05:04:40 am »
+1

WARNING: MODERATE SARCASM AHEAD
I was about to try to make a few points, but you've made a great point already, Angantyr.
This video is for all of you who think we need to get rid of our guns.
That whole collection of videos could have been shot in North County Saint Louis, and that's exactly why I'd prefer to keep my guns.

Here's my entry fee, too.
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #448 on: October 09, 2015, 05:21:46 am »
+4


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« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 05:51:54 am by Grytviken »

Offline Tibe

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #449 on: October 09, 2015, 07:22:50 am »
+1
i have no idea when i said any of that, but hey, im the one with mental problems, okay, sure.

You always said that, back in those other gunthreads. I just put your general argument into a single sentence and I quess it even sounds retarded to you.

(click to show/hide)

Your points are quite solid Jeade. Pretty hard to argue. I quess in the US it makes sense to be armed. The problem is that the US got a little too late with disarming its civilian population. And now an entire culture has risen up about prasing firearms and industries making heavy profit. All countries have had a point where their civilians had the right to bear arms, but those laws were retracted once stability was regained. US however never retracted it. And now its too late. So much is in circulation that your criminals will be easly fully armed forever.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 07:29:34 am by Tibe »