Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)

[LordBerenger]

If ''slavery = legal'' was in the constitution, I wonder if these pro constitution tinfoil hats would support that as much as they do the 2nd amendment.

[Overdriven]

If ''slavery = legal'' was in the constitution, I wonder if these pro constitution tinfoil hats would support that as much as they do the 2nd amendment.

The worst part is they choose to ignore the 'well regulated militia' part and skip right to the end 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed'. Even though that first part is fairly critical for determining what the second means.

I'm pretty sure what's going on in the US in terms of gun ownership is not a well regulated militia.

[Xant]

Speak for yourself. Not all of us are a fictional action hero who can pull out a gun from nowhere and shoot the evil criminal scum all in the time it takes for them to pull the trigger.

Nobody knows how heroic you were if you act like a retard and die immediately cos you have Clint Eastwood/martial artist delusions.

Scared little nerds need a gun to feel safe, and plan their lives as if they live in the wild west or some post apocalyptic wasteland. Hug your gun closer, it'll protect you from those mean old criminals you run into every day.

Newsflash, the people pulling guns aren't fictional villains either, and can't teleport in front of you with their gun drawn.

I know someone being able to take care of themselves must be so hard to believe for you that it must seem like a delusion, but I suggest seeing the world a bit. Might open your eyes.

I own no guns.

[Tibe]

  Yea the US is nothing like Europe.. we have 11+ million illegal immigrants (some say 30 now) and raging drug cartel wars going on in Mexico on the outskirts of our wide open boarder, and 347 million guns in circulation. Banning guns is never going to happen, it's not even an option our Constitution allows. Crime has always been a problem in the US because of the huge influx of immigrants and all the cultures they bring with them. Back in the day it was the Cosa Nostra Italian Mafia and that took 50 years to get rid of them, now it's lots of mafia imitation drug gangs and random psychopaths. Not much has really changed really, just the media can be everywhere now and cover and ignore what it choses to suit political agendas. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Also look at the murder rates in all of these South American countries these people are fleeing from... it makes the Middle-East look like a sunday walk in the park. More people are killed in Venezuela, Honduras and El Salvador than Iraq.
Liberals proposing total banning of guns = suicidal and retarded.

I already said that a gunban in the US wouldnt fix anything. You are too far gone. And about cartels. You think that for example the UK and France have less to deal with those? The UK has fucktons of cartels. A lot of criminal bosses consider UK to be the El Dorado of crime. Yet, no gun violence. A lot of stabbing. But no massacres and no innocent bystanders. And your constitution on guns is basically from the colonial age. Dont even bring that constitutionalthing up. Thats a big laugh. Partial reasons it was even adopted was to fight against slave revolts, fight against wild animals, create local militias and fight the king of England.  None of which are actually a thing today.

But no, you are right. In the US banning guns is basically suicidal. You need your guns to fight against other people with guns. Best Yurup can do is to learn from your example and never do it.

[Jeade]

Eventually confiscations ect will clear up the streets for the most parts.

Which would be great, except that we have 310 million firearms within our borders.
The ol' broken windows policing would certainly help to confiscate those firearms, but you'd be leaving law-abiding gun owners without their firearms and criminals with theirs.

Another factor would be the civil war it'd cause.
The government taking all firearms away from people?
That shit wouldn't fly, and for a couple reasons:

• The government is taking private property from millions of people
• Militias would form (because the Constitution is the inerrant word of the Lord Jesus Christ, founder of the Republican party) and attempt to overthrow the Fed

Personally, I don't think the Constitution is some holy, sacred document; it's outdated to the point that amendments alone aren't going to fix our problems.
That said, there are simply too many guns in this country to ban or confiscate them.

On another note, I talked to a German guy at a bluegrass festival just this past weekend and asked him how he felt about guns in the US.
His response, when asked about gun ownership in the US, was something similar to:
The US was founded by guns, and guns were an integral part of the US' early days.
On the frontier, if you needed food, you'd use a gun.
If you needed to protect your family, you'd use a gun.
If you needed to protect your life from another country or people, you'd use a gun.

^ This is all irrelevant to the thread, but I just found it interesting and wanted to share what is very likely the reason for our gun culture.

If someone wants to straight-up murder you for no reason, owning a gun is extremely unlikely to help. If someone just wants your tv and you're at home then owning a gun makes it more likely that one of you will be shot, but whichever one of you gets shot at least your tv will probably be safe so that makes it all worthwhile.

It's different for me being in a studio apartment on the ground floor, but back when I was living with my parents, we had a big fat American two story house with a basement and a huge yard.
If someone decided to break in and attempt to steal something, they'd first trigger an alarm.
The moment that alarm goes off, you move everyone to one room, call the police, and arm yourself (and this has happened to me, personally, more than once).
The police will take six or seven minutes to get there, so there's plenty of time for whoever has broken in to grab jewelry before running off.
If whoever broke in decided to enter the room with me and my family, that gun may very well come in handy; you've had plenty of time to acknowledge there may be a threat, you're armed, and you're as safe as you can be.

Under no circumstance would any sensible person try to hunt down an intruder in their home.
As always, you let the thief take their shit and leave, but that's not always how it'll play out.

[Xant]

Oh, wassat, you live a normal life + 'take care of yourself' without needing a gun? I trust your superior world experience Xant (lol), so clearly people dont need a gun to defend themselves, as you yourself have proved. As I figured, you're just being obnoxious for the sake of it.

I don't live in the US...

[Grytviken]

If ''slavery = legal'' was in the constitution, I wonder if these pro constitution tinfoil hats would support that as much as they do the 2nd amendment.

Yes and this was only amended because the US government at the time was losing a war against a rebellion. They had no intention of doing this otherwise.

I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.  - Abraham Lincoln's inaugural address 1861

Heskey give up. It's in the constitution so untouchable. They must own guns and justify it with illogical reasoning because it tells them to do so. Even though it doesn't at all and it's horrendously miss-interpreted.

How are you going to form a well regulated militia without the right of the people to keep and bear arms? The original founders also thought the military should not be a permanently funded operation, and the government should be dependent on the states not the other way around.

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have - Thomas Jefferson
 

[Tibe]

How are you going to form a well regulated militia without the right of the people to keep and bear arms? The original founders also thought the military should not be a permanently funded operation, and the government should be dependent on the states not the other way around.

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have - Thomas Jefferson

Founding fathers? Their opinions might have been relevant in the colonial times, but its kinda irrelevant now. Suprise suprise, times have changed. I think if I lived back than aswell, id probably want to carry firearms and be supportive of all my fellow countrymen arming themselves. Its not so vital anymore.

 And dont you think that states being entirely self-dependant is actually a bad thing, on a count that it kinda ununifies a nation as a whole and makes it easier to shatter by minor internal conflicts?

[Grytviken]

Founding fathers? Their opinions might have been relevant in the colonial times, but its kinda irrelevant now. Suprise suprise, times have changed. I think if I lived back than aswell, id probably want to carry firearms and be supportive of all my fellow countrymen arming themselves. Its not so vital anymore.

 And dont you think that states being entirely self-dependant is actually a bad thing, on a count that it kinda ununifies a nation as a whole and makes it easier to shatter by minor internal conflicts?

The idea was to keep our federal government from meddling in foreign affairs and loyal to the people, and separate us from European influence. The bill of rights sole existence is to assure anti-federalists would be given enough personal freedom to limit the power of the federal government.

[Tibe]

And how does your grandpas right to own assault rifles come into play with all that?

[Grytviken]

And how does your grandpas right to own assault rifles come into play with all that?

A majority of a state's population decides that, as it should be. They also get to decide what the definition of a assault rifle is.

[Jeade]

And how does your grandpas right to own assault rifles come into play with all that?

Well, first I'd ask you to define what an "assault rifle" is.
I used to be on the anti-assault rifle bandwagon, actually, but realized it was horseshit.
This right here is my hog hunting rifle:

(click to show/hide)

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You may look at that and say "that's an assault rifle," but in reality, it's a semi-automatic rifle, just like every other non-bolt action hunting rifle.
If anything, it's even less of an "assault rifle" as it's notoriously difficult to mount anything on an AK reliably.

Now, the Constitution states we have the right to maintain a militia and bear arms, but I don't think that's entirely relevant today, either.
However, being invaded by foreign powers is a thing.
I doubt that'll happen with the US (any time soon, anyway), and it's more of an afterthought, but the privilege of being able to own firearms is a nice one.

All that said, rifles are rarely used in crimes except for these terrible massacres we see.
Pistols are, by and large, the issue we have with gun violence in the US.

[Grytviken]

Well, first I'd ask you to define what an "assault rifle" is.
I used to be on the anti-assault rifle bandwagon, actually, but realized it was horseshit.
This right here is my hog hunting rifle:

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

You may look at that and say "that's an assault rifle," but in reality, it's a semi-automatic rifle, just like every other non-bolt action hunting rifle.
If anything, it's even less of an "assault rifle" as it's notoriously difficult to mount anything on an AK reliably.

Now, the Constitution states we have the right to maintain a militia and bear arms, but I don't think that's entirely relevant today, either.
However, being invaded by foreign powers is a thing.
I doubt that'll happen with the US (any time soon, anyway), and it's more of an afterthought, but the privilege of being able to own firearms is a nice one.

All that said, rifles are rarely used in crimes except for these terrible massacres we see.
Pistols are, by and large, the issue we have with gun violence in the US.

Add a bayonet mount and you can get charged with a 25,000$ felony 

[Jeade]

Add a bayonet mount and you can get charged with a 25,000$ felony 

Noted!

[Tibe]

However, being invaded by foreign powers is a thing.
I doubt that'll happen with the US (any time soon, anyway), and it's more of an afterthought, but the privilege of being able to own firearms is a nice one.

Than do it like the Šwiss. Put detonation charges on everything, give everybody some gun, but keep the ammo highly regulated. Arming the civilian population with real bullets and real guns is quite a bad idea. As we can clearly see from the current example.