Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)

[ecorcheur_brokar]

The biggest nonsense is to turn any discussion about this sort of tragedy into a general "pro gun" or "anti gun" argument (with the very foreseeable outcome of everyone being reinforced in their limited view of the world).

I have lived in a country, where every lengthy knife or xbow poses a problem (Germany), every legal firearm is required to be kept in a security safe/box,  and most sheeplings willingly accept that nobody except police, military and criminals is supposed to have guns. And I still knew enough people there who had access to guns - legally or otherwise.

I have worked in a country (Switzerland) where almost everyone has access to military-grade weapons in their homes - and nothing much ever happens.

I currently live in a country (Paraguay) where the law allows basically everyone to own a gun, and where a lot of people even carry guns outside their property or have them in their cars, because the police usually looks away - and while ofc the occasional shooting happens, there is not much to worry about and I have never heard about a teenager running amok with a gun here - (while they would have plenty of reason).


Putting reasonable gun ownership restrictions in place is one thing and should be discussed with a cool head - not linked to some tragedy that is exploited for the obvious agenda to disarm the people.

Thinking about the real reasons behind that level of hate in a young person, the disrespect for their own and other lives, the frustration, the lack of perspective etc.etc.  might be less convenient than shouting "ban the gunz" (because it might involve questioning our current lifestyle/society/values/education/economy/...), but it might actually lead to something.

Just removing guns from the game won't help shit.


P.S.: oh, and I'm a Iota Male. The type you don't find in the psych books. Stands for independant. Fuck the wrongly interpreted wolf analogies.

The perception and the reality is two different things. Germany is low in this graph (the only way to be lower is to be killed by wildlife before being killed by guns), Switzerland is neighbouring US, it's just a difference of media coverage maybe.
Industrialised world stress is not gonna be fixed so soon, so you better find a solution to guns in the meantime.

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[Clockworkkiller]

The biggest nonsense is to turn any discussion about this sort of tragedy into a general "pro gun" or "anti gun" argument (with the very foreseeable outcome of everyone being reinforced in their limited view of the world).

I have lived in a country, where every lengthy knife or xbow poses a problem (Germany), every legal firearm is required to be kept in a security safe/box,  and most sheeplings willingly accept that nobody except police, military and criminals is supposed to have guns. And I still knew enough people there who had access to guns - legally or otherwise.

I have worked in a country (Switzerland) where almost everyone has access to military-grade weapons in their homes - and nothing much ever happens.

I currently live in a country (Paraguay) where the law allows basically everyone to own a gun, and where a lot of people even carry guns outside their property or have them in their cars, because the police usually looks away - and while ofc the occasional shooting happens, there is not much to worry about and I have never heard about a teenager running amok with a gun here - (while they would have plenty of reason).


Putting reasonable gun ownership restrictions in place is one thing and should be discussed with a cool head - not linked to some tragedy that is exploited for the obvious agenda to disarm the people.

Thinking about the real reasons behind that level of hate in a young person, the disrespect for their own and other lives, the frustration, the lack of perspective etc.etc.  might be less convenient than shouting "ban the gunz" (because it might involve questioning our current lifestyle/society/values/education/economy/...), but it might actually lead to something.

Just removing guns from the game won't help shit.


P.S.: oh, and I'm a Iota Male. The type you don't find in the psych books. Stands for independant. Fuck the wrongly interpreted wolf analogies.

this hippy gets it

The perception and the reality is two different things. Germany is low in this graph (the only way to be lower is to be killed by wildlife before being killed by guns), Switzerland is neighbouring US, it's just a difference of media coverage maybe.
Industrialised world stress is not gonna be fixed so soon, so you better find a solution to guns in the meantime.

"Durr, the only solution is to ban ze gunz, i refuse to look at any other option/idea"

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED, racist frenchman

anyway, at this point, might as well shitpost at this point. So, ugh, what should i say to fan the flames?

[Molly]

[...]
anyway, at this point, might as well shitpost at this point. So, ugh, what should i say to fan the flames?

No need to change anything. As far as I am concerned, you're doing fine on the shitposting counter...

[Jeade]

And if they have enough insight to keep their feelings and intentions covert?

This sounds like you're implying psychopathy, but I don't believe that's fair.
Even the Aurora shooter was seeking help from a therapist.
The unfortunate part is that the therapist had already warned local police, but the police did nothing.

[Grytviken]

Even if you do believe the solution isn't more gun laws and gun restrictions do you really think arming everyone is a practical solution? More people owned guns per capita in the 1800's and there were less shootings, because people believed in a higher power or god judging them for their actions, not because of gun control or government restrictions.

And yes technology is far better now, but someone who knew what they were doing could achieve 20+ rounds a minute with a pair of pinpoint cartridge revolvers, Bloody Bill Anderson and the James gang are a perfectly good example of that.

[Clockworkkiller]

[Gnjus]

I'm American and it's definitely a gun problem. Fucking idiot self entitled titty suckling man babies shoot the fuck out of innocent people because someone said they didn't like then or feel like this will teach them to respect my authority. It's disgusting and pathetic. Every time this shit happens it makes me ashamed to be American, ashamed we don't have stricter gunlaws, and ashamed that there are fucking self entitled titty suckling man babies that still don't think guns are the problem. Fact is, guns are designed to kill things quickly and efficiently. At least with a stabbing rampage or, the often feared wild strangler, you have a chance to defend yourself and not instantly die by a bullet ripping through your chest from 30' away. Fucking sheeple open up your goddamn eyes. It's a gun problem. How many times does this have to happen before you wake the fuck up.

Edit: for those of you that think we need guns for our freedom, this just in, the military has more advanced weaponry than you do...they also have a litany of vehicles and drones that'll just blow you the fuck up before you even organize your rebellious militia. It's not 1780 anymore, everyone is not armed with muskets only. You dumb fucking titty suckling man baby.

what in the fuck is your infatuation with me? 

Clockwork posted three pics, a shotgun, an sks, and a fucking smoke grenade launcher, truly an arsenal worthy of praise.

the majority, of all my firearms are for hunting in some form or fashion.  I mean, i do have a family, and they can come hunt with me, so having multiple rifles for the family makes sense.

(click to show/hide)

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http://forum.melee.org/general-off-topic/guns-guns-and-more-guns-hosted-by-inbred-redneck-antiblitz-ameritrash/msg867890/#msg867890

I dont see how collecting something makes you a psycho, regardless of what the items are.

The bottom line, that most of you won't understand until you actually have kids, is that a parent shouldn't have to worry about their child attending a public school or college and getting shot to death. Is this the kind of world you want to live in? How about going on a date night at the movies and ready to eat some popcorn, when some guy with a gun decides, fuck it, I'm shooting the shit out of this place and the people in it. It's fucked up and, yes, GUNS are the problem. Unless there is serious regulation or stricter laws, there is nothing to prevent this kind of shit in the future. There have been 142 mass shootings from 2012 to 2014. ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY TWO just in the good ol' US of A. Something has to be done and if you don't agree, then I feel bad for you and your lack of human compassion. As I stated in my previous post, it's a lot harder to kill a group of people with any other weapon than a gun. Guns are designed to kill quickly and efficiently and that's exactly what they do. They are a tool for killing. You can argue that they're in the wrong hands or whatever, but the fact of the matter is, there is nothing stopping them from finding said hands in the first place.

Edit: Point with the graph is to show you how many people are killed each year on our soil, by our own people, with our own guns. Thought that was obvious. Also to squash the "but crazy people are doing the shooting" argument.

Ban Rap music first and see if crime goes down. As long as people openly glorify gun violence as a means of self expression I'll keep a loaded 12 gauge in my truck.

Christ sake, gun debates....

 

[Kalam]

And if they have enough insight to keep their feelings and intentions covert?

This is why I believe the only current realistic (easily understood by Joe Public) solutions we have available to us is 'deal with the problem when it happens, and then improve methods for dealing with the aftermath'.

I am of the opinion that mass shooters of this sort are usually unimaginative or disconnected enough with reality that they are unable to come up with more effective methods of mass murder and/or mayhem. Comparing school shootings to serial shooters (Beltway sniper, Ohio highway, Christopher Dorner, Eric Frein, etc) alone suggests that a lot of single event mass shooters are in it for a memorable suicide by cop.

Who was behind the Chicago Tylenol murders? Surely, methods like that are more insidious than a school shooting, if less dramatic. There are countless opportunities for people with access to specialized information (think about your water purity inspectors, for instance) to make use of, if they're feeling homicidal. The Camelford water poisoning was an accident. Most water treatment sites have minimal security. What about a guy with a knowledge of basic mechanics who picks random vintage cars and proceeds to surreptitiously cut the brake (draining them instead of leaving a puddle, of course) lines?

And what if you have a serial killer who picks victims randomly from major metropolitan areas, waits years between victims, and uses a different method for murder every time, occasionally even looking at local crime statistics to recreate homicides in the area whose perpetrators have not been found?

My point is, there's no way to effectively prevent a canny, determined mass murderers in a large population.

And I'm not saying it's impossible to identify single event mass shooters before the fact. I'm just saying it's impossible now. For every person who searches 'how to build a pipe bomb' on the internet, there are probably 100,000 preteen boys, 5,000 curious people, 1,000 writers, and 1 terrorist. I pulled those numbers out of my ass, but you get the picture, right?

That said, it does seem like effective therapists would be able to find a lot of the school shooters before the fact. Penetration of mental healthcare in the population and availability of competent psychologists who practice with a basis in evidence based theories is probably shitty. Not sure if that will change any time soon.

In the end, it seems like there's just response time to incidents, and that's where guns rights peoples say 'if everyone had a gun, someone would have shot him'. I'm not convinced that a world like that wouldn't just lead to a lot of instances of friendly fire and really chaotic firefights, given the current environment. Reflexive fire in urban environments is ridiculous even when people train as teams every three months. Even if it were legal, I don't think the majority of people would carry a gun. I don't have to do any extra paperwork for a concealed carry license, and I could probably pick up a weapon tomorrow for $200 or less, but I would rather spend that money on buying new brakepads, a gym membership, or a safer bicycle helmet.

[Thomek]

Jesus christ, the Mental argument is not a fucking argument!

There are crazy people all over the world, and they don't have as many mass shootings or killing, because:
They just don't have as easy access to guns!

How on earth can it be controversial to make it so that you need to pass some test to use a gun, to show that you can use it? Be registered and health checked? Anyone who loves guns can still get them, they just have to work a bit to earn their right.

The other murdermachine, the car, would you like to remove drivers licences too? Remove the eye sight test?

Please let the people who want guns get whatever gun they want, just make it so there's progressively more demands made to them the more deadly they can be. If you want to own a collection of ARs they should be properly locked up and you should have a special collectors permit.

etc etc.. Gun regulations are not the end of your hobby, necessarily.

[Kalam]

I've noticed, recently, that I've been grossly misunderstood on subjects like these in this forum.

Not sure if I just suck at communication, people assume that saying X means I agree with Y, if it's a combination of the two, if I'm insane and X is Y, good old tribal signaling interference, or something else entirely.

Anyway, I don't disagree with any of that, Thomek. Addressing the mental state of shooters that leads them to that action does not mean I do not believe in gun registration and licensing. I want weapons to be treated like vehicles in the sense that there should be different licenses for different classes of vehicle , an annoying bureaucratic process, and tests to determine if person is able to properly and safely operate that piece of equipment.

[Clockworkkiller]

Jesus christ, the Mental argument is not a fucking argument!

There are crazy people all over the world, and they don't have as many mass shootings or killing, because:
They just don't have as easy access to guns!

How on earth can it be controversial to make it so that you need to pass some test to use a gun, to show that you can use it? Be registered and health checked? Anyone who loves guns can still get them, they just have to work a bit to earn their right.

The other murdermachine, the car, would you like to remove drivers licences too? Remove the eye sight test?

Please let the people who want guns get whatever gun they want, just make it so there's progressively more demands made to them the more deadly they can be. If you want to own a collection of ARs they should be properly locked up and you should have a special collectors permit.

etc etc.. Gun regulations are not the end of your hobby, necessarily.

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[Xant]

I have already proven, with rigorous logic, that the pro-gun view is the right one. /thread

[LordBerenger]

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Furries are worse than pedophiles though

[Kafein]

If only the pro-gun Americans looked further than their centuries old, poorly worded sacred books for arguments maybe this issue could progress towards sanity. Creationists refer to the Bible, Clockwork to the 2nd Amendment. Coincidence?

[AntiBlitz]

If only the pro-gun Americans looked further than their centuries old, poorly worded sacred books for arguments maybe this issue could progress towards sanity. Creationists refer to the Bible, Clockwork to the 2nd Amendment. Coincidence?

mexicans eat mexican food, and Kafein makes stupid references, coincidence????