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Author Topic: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)  (Read 35117 times)

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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #75 on: October 02, 2015, 09:03:56 pm »
0
I dunno, these people seem mostly harmless. Cocaine, though...
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If you call 86 people getting shot over a holiday weekend harmless, i'd hate to live wherever you are, must be all the malt liquor.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #76 on: October 02, 2015, 09:07:24 pm »
+1
Yeah sure, not many would really vouch for requiring breathalyzers in every car, however once again, there is an inherent difference between a car and a gun. Some people NEED cars to go about their daily lives, while owning a car makes plenty of others' lives much easier, even if it isn't necessarily a requirement. No one (save for cops and military, I suppose) really NEEDS a gun. If you're hunting for a living or some shit, then yeah, apply for a license and get certified to own one. Cars only cause deaths when they are misused... guns cause deaths when they are used as intended, lol.

But the point is, you're arguing the wrong facts. What needs to be argued is not "lol, guns kill" but instead limiting the discussion to facts of mental health, proper licensing and a general attitude similar to drunk driving.

Fact: Many people NEED cars, yet they still drive drunk and complain when then get busted.

Also, if Europe can get by with mass public transportation, why don't we, in America sell all our cars? I mean Europe is similar and all, so they if they can, why can't we?

We can't selectively use arguments like that on 1 item but then defend them on another item that is similar enough in death rate, need and abundance.

(If Bronto's chart is correct, why then do we only see a major mass shooting in the news now and not any of the ones for the past month?)

No Comments on this anyone?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 09:12:56 pm by Lt_Anders »
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Offline AntiBlitz

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #77 on: October 02, 2015, 09:08:18 pm »
0
I'm not trying to be witty, I'm trying to speak in layman's terms so you idiots can understand. There has to be some form of regulation or these statistics are going to keep increasing. I'd rather put a band aide on it, then make the cut larger.

Sure it's the media, but it's also people that believe that guns aren't the problem, people are. That's just completely ass backwards. As I said before, how many mass stranglings do you hear of? None you say....why is that...oh because you can't strangle a large group of people from 30' away no matter how crazy you are...give that guy a gun though and well you get the point.

oh okay, so let me speak to you in laymans terms so an idiot like yourself can understand.  HEIGHTENING REGULATIONS WOULDNT HAVE STOPPED THE FUCKING GUY, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.  now that the generalization is done, we can continue.  Stings a bit when people name call dont it.  There is no way you can regulate a population of 7 billion people and expect a reasonable amount of them who are likely fucking looney to not get the firearm they needed to mass murder people, if they are going to commit an atrocity, then they are.  I just cant think of a way other then to just outright ban them that would create the deficit in shootings that you expect.  I simply asked you for a proposition, you failed to deliver, you insult me, and then give an extreme like strangling to continue pushing some glorious staunch anti-gun debate.  Like i said, there isnt a whimsical law that we can add to the already twenty thousand gun laws that will keep stupid from being stupid.

The proposition is to keep things the way they are with cars where everyone abides by the same speed limits and restrictions because of the 1% who fuck it up, even if you're REALLY REALLY SURE that you're not in that 1% and can decide for yourself what is a safe speed. That's the restriction you have right now.

isnt that relatively what we have already and isnt working? I mean shit, the state i used to live in, Maryland, banned assault weapons and a whole slew of others just because the name sounded scary(no barretts, thats the name of the over glorified call of duty 50. cal sniper rifle, so you cant own that).  They also have the large magazine ban, concealed carry is impossible to get, and every citizen who purchases a firearm applies for it, waits a month for a background check, and the firearm is sent to the state police where they first fire the weapon to take pics in case it is ever used in a crime.  Yet we have the fine city of Baltimore, Murder capital of the country and none of that stops the barrage of murders that occur daily.

Obviously none of us here are going to have the correct answer to fix the issue, else we would be a fine politician working on capitol hill making a 6 figure pay check.  I truly dont see the point in these debates is what im eluding to, they are fruitless, they never lead anywhere.

Well the main issue with this logic is that cars are designed to transport people and objects from place to place as their first priority. Yes, they can also be misused and therefore lead to injury and death. Same with plenty of other tools, be it an electric drill, saw, woodchipper, lawnmower, etc etc. Chainsaws are made to cut wood. Can they also be used by mass murderers going on a rampage? Yes, although not very effectively. Guns however are made primarily to kill things, people and/or animals. Target shooting and such are merely games/practice that developed to further people's proficiency with these weapons. A car can be a weapon. A chainsaw and a lawnmower too. But they aren't designed to be weapons, while guns are. Regulating cars and other tools in the same manner as firearms is literally retarded.

jesus christ, i didnt even bring up the car comparison debacle, and here i am being written to as if i did.  Youre literally quoting the same thing that happens every goddamn time these threads come up.

If you're hunting for a living or some shit, then yeah, apply for a license and get certified to own one. Cars only cause deaths when they are misused... guns cause deaths when they are used as intended, lol.
thats what the laws in place already do, you apply for the gun because you want to use it for defense or hunting.  Obviously laws differ from state to state, but that is already the intended feature.  So you arent thinking of some new idea, just restating the already intended purpose of the laws.


Christ sake, gun debates....
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 09:15:29 pm by AntiBlitz »

Offline Jona

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #78 on: October 02, 2015, 09:15:05 pm »
0
But the point is, you're arguing the wrong facts. What needs to be argued is not "lol, guns kill" but instead limiting the discussion to facts of mental health, proper licensing and a general attitude similar to drunk driving.

Fact: Many people NEED cars, yet they still drive drunk and complain when then get busted.

Also, if Europe can get by with mass public transportation, why don't we, in America sell all our cars? I mean Europe is similar and all, so they if they can, why can't we?

We can't selectively use arguments like that on 1 item but then defend them on another item that is similar enough in death rate, need and abundance.

Europe has literally nothing to do with any of my arguments. Great, Europe has public transportation! Guess what? So does every major city (and probably minor ones too) in the US! No doubt someone living in a rural area of Europe has a car if they need to travel a lot, similar to us here in murica. Also lol at the need of guns and cares being remotely close to the same order of magnitude.
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2015, 09:18:01 pm »
+1
But the point is, you're arguing the wrong facts. What needs to be argued is not "lol, guns kill" but instead limiting the discussion to facts of mental health, proper licensing and a general attitude similar to drunk driving.

Fact: Many people NEED cars, yet they still drive drunk and complain when then get busted.

Also, if Europe can get by with mass public transportation, why don't we, in America sell all our cars? I mean Europe is similar and all, so they if they can, why can't we?

We can't selectively use arguments like that on 1 item but then defend them on another item that is similar enough in death rate, need and abundance.

No Comments on this anyone?

Nones going to drive a car or a lawn mower into a school to kill 20 people with it.

Offline Grytviken

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2015, 09:21:01 pm »
+1
Liberals have a point, gun laws need to be strengthened to cater to the failing youth generation that was raised on rap music, drug culture and self gratification, ALL liberal ideas.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2015, 09:22:34 pm »
0
Nones going to drive a car or a lawn mower into a school to kill 20 people.

Sigh,

Never should have bothered.
"lol, he said used cars as an example"

And why would someone want to kill 20 people to begin with? This is the heart of the debate, and what I was trying to show with the car example. After analyzing the data, the police came up with the best option to stop it: Community involvement, Heavy punishment, better tools to stop it, more active enforcement.

As far as guns go, we ignore all four of those and go straight to "NO GUNS" rather than a better, gradual 20+ year cycle like they did with Drunk driving.

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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2015, 09:23:32 pm »
-1
Sigh,

Never should have bothered.
"lol, he said used cars as an example"

And why would someone want to kill 20 people to begin with? This is the heart of the debate, and what I was trying to show with the car example. After analyzing the data, the police came up with the best option to stop it: Community involvement, Heavy punishment, better tools to stop it, more active enforcement.

As far as guns go, we ignore all four of those and go straight to "NO GUNS" rather than a better, gradual 20+ year cycle like they did with Drunk driving.

He listened to too much rap music about shooting people and fucking bitches and realized it was all lie and he'd have to get a real job.

Offline Bronto

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #83 on: October 02, 2015, 09:26:49 pm »
0
oh okay, so let me speak to you in laymans terms so an idiot like yourself can understand.  HEIGHTENING REGULATIONS WOULDNT HAVE STOPPED THE FUCKING GUY, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.  now that the generalization is done, we can continue.  Stings a bit when people name call dont it.  There is no way you can regulate a population of 7 billion people and expect a reasonable amount of them who are likely fucking looney to not get the firearm they needed to mass murder people, if they are going to commit an atrocity, then they are.  I just cant think of a way other then to just outright ban them that would create the deficit in shootings that you expect.  I simply asked you for a proposition, you failed to deliver, you insult me, and then give an extreme like strangling to continue pushing some glorious staunch anti-gun debate.  Like i said, there isnt a whimsical law that we can add to the already twenty thousand gun laws that will keep stupid from being stupid.

But that's the exact point. Why the fuck do you need a semiautomatic anything if you're only using it for hunting? To that I say perhaps you should remove the head from  your ass and like I give a shit if you name call me. Doesn't sting one bit. What does, is that guns can be more strictly regulated and you fail to see it.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #84 on: October 02, 2015, 09:28:05 pm »
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But that's the exact point. Why the fuck do you need a semiautomatic anything if you're only using it for hunting? To that I say perhaps you should remove the head from  your ass and like I give a shit if you name call me. Doesn't sting one bit. What does, is that guns can be more strictly regulated and you fail to see it.

(If Bronto's chart is correct, why then do we only see a major mass shooting in the news now and not any of the ones for the past month?)

(click to show/hide)

No Comments on this anyone?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 09:31:15 pm by Lt_Anders »
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Offline Xant

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #85 on: October 02, 2015, 09:30:56 pm »
+2
You say the problem is too many guns, I say the real problem is NOT ENOUGH GUNS.

If everyone carried guns, then shootings like this would be impossible. If every (male) child was taught how to use firearms, went through an agōgē of sorts, and was then required to carry at least a pistol at all times, in school and in church, there would be less deaths.
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Offline Bronto

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #86 on: October 02, 2015, 09:31:24 pm »
0
No Comments on this anyone?

Oh god anders, just quote it and click the link the picture came from. It was a news article. I'm sure you'll all claim it's incredibly biased since it isn't fox news, it was from the Washington Post, and put another feather in your caps.

Offline Grytviken

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #87 on: October 02, 2015, 09:34:58 pm »
+3
No Comments on this anyone?

Not all of these other death statistics are INTENTIONAL. Guns are made for one purpose, killing. And these happen to be NEEDLESS killings. There is a mental problem along with liberal cultural problems, but guns ALLOW these people to be easily EFFECTIVE at mass killings. Compromises need to be made, noones going to lose their guns, but tighter restrictions and harsher laws need to be put in place, as well as a drift away from these liberal ideas that raising a generation on rap music, drug abuse and violence glorification and self-entitlement is a good idea. If you threaten to shoot someone to their face you go to jail, if you do it in a rap song you make millions of dollars, see a problem here?

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #88 on: October 02, 2015, 09:36:12 pm »
+1
Oh god anders, just quote it and click the link the picture came from. It was a news article. I'm sure you'll all claim it's incredibly biased since it isn't fox news and put another feather in your caps.

The point:
Lots of mass shootings > very little media coverage
Lots of media coverage for 1  mass shooting > Why not all?

Media Bias trying to sell to us their viewpoint rather than actively engaging in the truth of fighting against it. Shock value versus real value.

(Also, clever. Calling me a Fox supporter because your argument doesn't stand up when called into question. Clever strawman)

Not all of these other death statistics are INTENTIONAL. Guns are made for one purpose, killing. And these happen to be NEEDLESS killings. There is a mental problem along with liberal cultural problems, but guns ALLOW these people to be easily EFFECTIVE at mass killings. Compromises need to be made, noones going to lose their guns, but tighter restrictions and harsher laws need to be put in place, as well as a drift away from these liberal ideas that raising a generation on rap music, drug abuse and violence glorification and self-entitlement is a good idea. If you threaten to shoot someone to their face you go to jail, if you do it in a rap song you make millions of dollars, see a problem here?

Yes, I do. I'm all for a Proper, national minimum gun standards law. Most people ignore the moderate(and probably minority in this argument) approach to all of this.

(See, for example, Bronto and Antiblitz, to opposite coins who argue their side, rather than find a proper middle  ground that really does do a good job. Course, if any of us really had a good idea, we'd be politicians already :wink:)

I know where you're coming from, dude, but

Drinking and driving and firearm related homicide might lead to similar outcomes I guess, people die, but its nowhere near the same thing. People don't go out and purchase a car and then go drinking with their friends so they can kill tons of people and people don't buy a gun so they can get to and from the bar. Like you can't just combat intentional gun violence by running ads about how uncool shooting schools is, adding school shooting checkpoints, harsher penalties for school shooters and having a school shooting awareness program in school.

People do not intend to kill with a car, but anyone who drinks and then drives is intentionally putting other people in harms way for their choice.

And why can't you combat gun violence with increasing community activity, proper minimum gun control, and increased officer presence? The first and last are verified ways to combat all crime, so why can't it work on guns as well for guns?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 09:43:30 pm by Lt_Anders »
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Offline Bronto

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #89 on: October 02, 2015, 09:40:32 pm »
0
The point:
Lots of mass shootings > very little media coverage
Lots of media coverage for 1  mass shooting > Why not all?

Media Bias trying to sell to us their viewpoint rather than actively engaging in the truth of fighting against it. Shock value versus real value.

(Also, clever. Calling me a Fox supporter because your argument doesn't stand up when called into question. Clever strawman)

Yes, I do. I'm all for a Proper, minimum gun standards law. Most people ignore the moderate(and probably minority in this argument) approach to all of this.

(See, for example, Bronto and Antiblitz, to opposite coins who argue their side, rather than find a proper middle  ground that really does do a good job. Course, if any of us really had a good idea, we'd be politicians already :wink:)

:D since you like numbers:

http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015

At the bottom you'll see all the sources/reporting done on the 296 represented in the Satan's Newspaper Washington Post chart.

(click to show/hide)