Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!

[Angantyr]

socialism is an economic policy not a government type. all a constitutional republic refers to is how leaders are elected. also cali is a shithole and only has a large economy because pf silicon valley and other massive multinational have headquarters there. also chocolate chip cookie means national socialism in english and while i am a national i am not a socialist. so i dont give a fuck what misconstrued definition you have, its wrong
 

NSDAP purged any remaining elements of socialism (the variant I think you're referring to) in the SA during the Night of the Long Knives (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives), putting the revolution firmly on the side of the economic establishment.
But the SA basically began as organized thugs fighting communists in the streets, Der Führer absolutely hated the socialist and communist ideologies, and a major theme of the fascist states was to fight socialism.


By other definitions it's virtually impossible to find any political system without some degree of socialism.

[Siiem]

http://i.imgur.com/sbkuVkj.webm

[Grytviken]

NSDAP purged any remaining elements of socialism (the variant I think you're referring to) in the SA during the Night of the Long Knives (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives), putting the revolution firmly on the side of the economic establishment.
But the SA basically began as organized thugs fighting communists in the streets, Der Führer absolutely hated the socialist and communist ideologies, and a major theme of the fascist states was to fight socialism.


By other definitions it's virtually impossible to find any political system without some degree of socialism.

They were all socialists though. The Germans loved Albert because he gave everyone chocolate chip cookies, they didn't care where they came from, and those that did lost theirs. Once they ran out of chocolate chip cookies he would find new ways to take them until finally there were none left in Germany, so he went elsewhere to find them. All of his policies were extreme forms of socialism.

[Angantyr]

He did a lot of good for many Germans and the Führer's war on Bolshevism won him the support of the middle-classes and concentrations of capital and power (mainly industrialists and the officer class), and as a populist his policies were a mixed bag of ideologies, strong militarism and a continuation of Bismarck's conservative Sozialstaat/welfare state (the reactionary German revolution 'from above') while also cracking down hard on the working-class.

[Oberyn]

The perception of the chocolate chip cookies as "socialists", as if that was the primary economic feature of their rule and not the topdown free market driven subsidized corporatism backed by the government, especially when it came to any industry essential to military power (sounds familiar, hmmm) is a uniquely american (rightwing) meme. A relic from Cold War paranoia, but there's also the implication that there's no such thing as an obvious dangerous "endgame" for rightwing extremism in the US, since they lay both the commies and the chocolate chip cookies at the footstep of the left. Right and left here meaning on an american political axis.

[Grytviken]

The perception of the chocolate chip cookies as "socialists", as if that was the primary economic feature of their rule and not the topdown free market driven subsidized corporatism backed by the government, especially when it came to any industry essential to military power (sounds familiar, hmmm) is a uniquely american (rightwing) meme. A relic from Cold War paranoia, but there's also the implication that there's no such thing as an obvious dangerous "endgame" for rightwing extremism in the US, since they lay both the commies and the chocolate chip cookies at the footstep of the left. Right and left here meaning on an american political axis.

Socialism always works at someone else's expense. At best it should be an intermediary or tool when no other solution is possible. A government should be dependent and ruled by it's citizens, not the other way around.

[Oberyn]

If "socialism" is merely the exploitation by the duly established authority of those under it's responsability by contract and convention, there has never been any form of government that was not "socialist", the US included.
It's not like this stuff is any mystery, there has been a lot of scholarship on the subject. Read into the Preussentum und Sozialismus(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preussentum_und_Sozialismus) philosophy that spawned the chocolate chip cookies, or more generally the Conservative Revolutionary Movement at the end of WW1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Revolutionary_movement).

[Grytviken]

If "socialism" is merely the exploitation by the duly established authority of those under it's responsability by contract and convention, there has never been any form of government that was not "socialist", the US included.
It's not like this stuff is any mystery, there has been a lot of scholarship on the subject. Read into the Preussentum und Sozialismus(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preussentum_und_Sozialismus) philosophy that spawned the chocolate chip cookies, or more generally the Conservative Revolutionary Movement at the end of WW1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Revolutionary_movement).

Socialism can be a useful tool but is easily exploitable for populist purposes. It limits the growth of the private sector and replaces it with government regulations and welfare dependencies that take away the economic responsibility and independence of it's citizens, you can't compete with a powerful government that is out of control.

[Kafein]

Americans talking about "socialism" is always funny.

[Angantyr]

To the extent right and left wing has any meaning when dealing with statism, policies such as social inequality, breaking labour unions and giving the capitalist monopolies free reins while mobilizing the nation for war and preaching racial and national chauvinism is considered right-wing (all NSDAP policies), while classical notions of socialism such as Marxian workers' control of production or the rejection of capitalism is left-wing - The Führer's Germany was ultra-right wing and was considered so by everyone at the time, foreign Western observers included (often applaudingly).

Social measures in the German context, ie. Bismarckian welfare; pensions, accident insurance, and medical care, was broadly supported by the right-wing and was originally a conservative tool to keep the masses in place following the 1848 revolutions all over Europe. The German revolution was a lot less idealistic than its French 'from below' counterpart(s).

[Xant]

Capitalism works at someone else's expense as well.

[Thomek]

Jesus the right wing has always been arguing against ideologies in all forms, targeting socialism. Very often rightly so, but more recently, at least in Europe, I see more and more dogmatic right wing ideology as well. Dogmatism and knee-jerking reactions must go. The future is in a pragmatic approach. A blend of socialism and capitalism, with a strong focus on meritocracy. Equal possibilites, open up on the top by strangling transfer of wealth through generations.

Lol and as Xant so perfectly puts it, Capitalism also works at someone else's expense. The invisible hand works to make sure you buy overpriced products, always struggling for monopoly and cartels, manipulates the money market, owns your work, and sell it off for 10 times more.. Makes it expensive to be poor, etc etc..

I'm for a meritocracy, but capitalism has inherent flaws that are opposing a meritocracy. For example that your inherited background plays a large role in your possibilities in life. On both ends, in that your connections, education, imagination, monetary freedom will never be on par with those that had it given, as well as later in life, the positions that you seek will be preoccupied by people that had it given. This is not always true on an individual level, but on a statistical level it is.

I think leveling the playing field, by redistributing wealth so it cannot be handed down through generations as now, would be the strongest, best thing a society can do to create a real meritocracy, where decision making is done by the best of us, who has earned it.

Funnily enough, right wing governments in Europe have barely or zero "Death taxes" while in the US they actually exist, and are imo the best tax there is. Something we can learn from the states..

[Paul]

This is actually what I've been thinking too. Inheriting wealth and not having to lift a finger in your whole life is the cancer. There is a whole caste of "professional sons". Instead successful people should be able choose projects (for the "Greater Good") where to spent the majority of their   accumulated wealth at the end of their lifes (or earlier). That could be science, infrastructure, public buildings - or a fcking moon base for all I care.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to inherit stuff in general but being rich or poor should depend on your skills and work ethic and not on your daddy.

[Tibe]

Americans talking about "socialism" is always funny.

It is really remarkable and funny how effective job the anti-socialistic propaganda has done in the US. Nothing they ever claim with a serius face, can be considered as "socialism", all of them instantly go to fullblown extremes like nazism or Stalin era communism. Its funny because it really affects nobody outside of the US. If they feel like mortgaging their house incase they get a horrible disease and want their middle class to live in complete poverty, its entirely their own buisness.

[Grytviken]

This is actually what I've been thinking too. Inheriting wealth and not having to lift a finger in your whole life is the cancer. There is a whole caste of "professional sons". Instead successful people should be able choose projects (for the "Greater Good") where to spent the majority of their   accumulated wealth at the end of their lifes (or earlier). That could be science, infrastructure, public buildings - or a fcking moon base for all I care.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to inherit stuff in general but being rich or poor should depend on your skills and work ethic and not on your daddy.

Some EU countries have up to a  52% income tax rate. When all is said and done do you even have much left to take to the grave with you?  Between the higher taxes and lower wages compared to the US for higher income higher education jobs you are getting screwed both ways. Sure there are benefits to living in Europe, but they sure aren't free.