Author Topic: #NeverForget1915 (Read 5410 times)

Panos_ · « **Reply #60 on:** April 30, 2015, 09:51:02 am »

The Turks are really funny, instead of taking responsibility of the atrocities that their ancestors, and Kemal commited, they are trying to blame the dead as usual.

The Armenians or the Greeks or the Assyrians that were butchered from the so called father of the Turks, seek only an apology, nothing can change the past, thats the only certain thing, but when I read comments that put the blame on the dead, really pisses me off.

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Forgive, but never forget.

ecorcheur_brokar · « **Reply #61 on:** April 30, 2015, 11:24:53 am »

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Quote from: HESKEYTIME on April 30, 2015, 12:16:41 am

I have decided that I want to talk, preach and White-Knight about the Great Chinese Famine. It's an event that isn't crammed in western people's faces often enough so I am entitled to force everyone to hear about it, especially since this year 2015 marks the 57-year anniversary of its start, and the 54-year anniversary of when it ended.

It all happened between the years 1958 and 1961 as those of you with historical knowledge or competent maths skills will no-doubt already be aware. It all began when Chairman Mao had a dream, a dream of initiating China's Great Leap Forward. But to do this China needed technology, machinery, and scientists from other nations such as Australia. But what could the hugely agrarian country hope to offer in exchange? How about all its grain!

In the process of modernizing, grain was gathered to central locations to be shipped out to Australia in exchange for technology and shit (in reality most of it rotted in silos and never made it to be exported). But ruh roh, amidst all the drought and bad harvest Mao forgot his own people need food too! But don't worry, Mao heard it on good authority that the peasants only pretend to be starving, eating pig leaves by day but stuffing their greedy faces with rice by night. So i'm sure the whole issue will blow over and the grain can remain under armed guard whilst the peasants enjoy eating all that food they have...

According to government statistics, there were 15 million excess deaths in this period. Unofficial estimates vary, but scholars have estimated the number of famine victims to be between 20 and 43 million. Historian Frank Dikötter, having been granted special access to Chinese archival materials, estimates that there were at least 45 million premature deaths from 1958 to 1962

So... when you ship 12 million Africans across the atlantic over the course of multiple centuries you get 200 years of white-guilt and 'imagine how shit it was to be a slave' when you learn history. When 20-45 million chinese die over 3 years, less than 60 years ago who gives a shit? It's not like it was *our* fault amirite?

TLDR So let's all learn history by what we feel guiltiest about. I'll start:
'Hey Wales... i'm sorry we took your homeland and exterminated your populace/turned you into 2nd class citizens in your own land. And pushed what was left of you and your culture to the far west of our island, and then conquered that too and give you no autonomy to this very day'
'France, yikes, i'm sorry about the 100-years-war and the various instances of English kings trying to take your throne. If it makes you feel any better they were mostly of Norman lineage so... y'know, you invaded us first in a way'
'Denmark, i'm sorry for bombing Coppenhagen whilst we were allied/friendly in diplomatic terms... and then doing it again just a few years later. If it helps, as a result of Lord Nelson ignoring the order to cease firing at you we invented the expression 'to turn a bind eye' which is kinda cool...'

There's no point in comparing massacre with each other, there's to learn in each of them.
When I critized the west the point was not that white-shaming shit. It's just that I'm tired of France judging everyone in it's media (maybe it's not the case in UK media), when in fact, you can never please "the international community". small exemple:

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It's like playing a game with an asshole child that constantly changes the rule so they fits him better. Not even talking about the hypocrisia, when everyone is blaming the other for minorities repression while doing the exact same in its country.

Quote from: Kafein on April 30, 2015, 12:48:22 am

By the way France recognizes its many, many more recent errors concerning e.g. Algeria and the numerous nuclear tests there and in the Pacific.

When Sarcozy was in power and criticizing Turkey, France had recognize killings (also mass torture which was already a big thing I admit) just like Japan has recognized killings but not war crime.

Leshma · « **Reply #62 on:** April 30, 2015, 02:07:09 pm »

Quote from: Kratos on April 30, 2015, 07:21:08 am

and put genocide on our 600 years of brothers, Armenians

Not sure should I laugh or cry...

the real god emperor · « **Reply #63 on:** April 30, 2015, 02:29:31 pm »

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Tore · « **Reply #64 on:** April 30, 2015, 04:39:10 pm »

>armenian genocide
>real

Kafein · « **Reply #65 on:** April 30, 2015, 06:38:48 pm »

Quote from: Oberyn on April 30, 2015, 01:04:52 am

-Great value in historical truth
-Thread about denying genocide of armenians
-What's my point?

Do I really need to spell it out for you? Is the juxtaposition of the way Germany handles it's past history in an official capacity and the way Turkey does not enough? Again, you can be arrested for publically having an opinion on this historical event that does not concord with the official government one. And you want to pretend that we can't judge that as incredibly fucked up? What the fuck is wrong with you people?

Errr, what? Where did I say it's not incredibly fucked up? Obvious you didn't read "perspective" the way I wrote it, so I'm going to spell it out for you: "China is big".

Quote from: ecorcheur_brokar on April 30, 2015, 11:24:53 am

It's like playing a game with an asshole child that constantly changes the rule so they fits him better. Not even talking about the hypocrisia, when everyone is blaming the other for minorities repression while doing the exact same in its country.

Two wrongs don't make a right? Countries aren't people.

Xant · « **Reply #66 on:** April 30, 2015, 06:43:11 pm »

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Kafein · « **Reply #67 on:** April 30, 2015, 07:00:12 pm »

Xant, I have to say, unambiguous communication is not your forte.

[ptx] · « **Reply #68 on:** April 30, 2015, 07:05:43 pm »

Quote from: HESKEYTIME on April 30, 2015, 10:16:32 am

Well the west didn't even have a clue it was happening because it was so completely hidden and denied both at the time and for decades later by Mao's administration. If anything the west was presented with the impression that the Great Leap Forward was an astounding success.

Also the official figures even today are significantly lower (3-15 separate Armenia genocides apart in terms of figures) from what the most recent estimates are. Does that count?

But of course I forget, out of the non-Turks and non-Armenians here it's not about a noble quest for truth, it's the fact that this is currently trending (or that you're looking for something new to be angry about in Oberyn's case). I guess i'll just have to wait till the famine is trending, I suspect i'll have to wait a very long time.

Still writing long posts, still completely missing the point.

Quote from: Kafein on April 30, 2015, 07:00:12 pm

Xant, I have to say, unambiguous communication is not your forte.

Then what is? Is it his ability to surround URLs pointing to images with BB tags?

Aldamir · « **Reply #69 on:** April 30, 2015, 10:36:17 pm »

From what I understand, during this period the Turks tried to incorporate science, medical, and technological breakthroughs into their traditional lives. There was much resistance in a population akin to pre-civil war Americans. Throughout terrorism and crime, the Turks tried harder and harder to contain its people in a picturesque Muslim way of life. At the outbreak of WWI there was upheaval and resistance to the government, so the Turks employed their pacification techniques upon discordant parts of their population. Very medieval, and their government was destroyed as a product of the war.

[ptx] · « **Reply #70 on:** April 30, 2015, 11:12:54 pm »

Quote from: HESKEYTIME on April 30, 2015, 08:09:31 pm

Still writing short posts and missing the point.

...
"Should i write a long-winded post?"
"Am i being clever?"
"Am i writing about something that is being officially denied by the perpetrator or it's successors?"

All of these questions have the same answer.

...

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[ptx] · « **Reply #71 on:** May 01, 2015, 12:01:21 am »

"Yes"? Are you delusional? Or, perhaps, despite being a native speaker, you do not understand the meaning of the word "denial"?

Also, top lels @ attempting a "someone else did this too, so it's okay".

Oberyn · « **Reply #72 on:** May 01, 2015, 01:52:37 am »

Stupid ignorant fuck who knows little and cares less about history thinks other people only care about history because of some media and government driven campaign. It's ok Heskey, we know you're pathologically incapable of holding "foreign" countries and cultures to the same standards you hold "western" ones, it's not your fault. Maybe you should say something about how the US is bad at this point, despite not being american and therefore, according to your own retarded arguements, have absolutely no right to judge or have any opinion on anything american. Hell, you can even move to America and talk as much shit about it's history to your heart's content, and you won't even be arrested. Magical really.

Xant · « **Reply #73 on:** May 01, 2015, 05:07:29 am »

Quote from: [ptx] on April 30, 2015, 07:05:43 pm

Then what is? Is it his ability to surround URLs pointing to images with BB tags?

Yes, my super power.

the real god emperor · « **Reply #74 on:** May 01, 2015, 08:16:54 am »

Suddenly became a peniswrestling thread , guess that was what Leshma wanted all along lol

Author Topic: #NeverForget1915 (Read 5410 times)

Panos_

Re: #NeverForget1915

ecorcheur_brokar

Re: #NeverForget1915

Leshma

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the real god emperor

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Tore

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Kafein

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Xant

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Kafein

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[ptx]

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Aldamir

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[ptx]

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[ptx]

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Oberyn

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Xant

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the real god emperor

Re: #NeverForget1915