[Poll] Feedback on 2h stab.

[Gravoth_iii]

i am competitive gamer, i play hard, and i play to win, i collect tears, and i drink them for everlasting youth ( or some shit, does it matter what they do? they taste GREAT! )

You play, you cry for nerfs, and then cry some more.

Not so sure about that bit, you don't want a flat increase cos dem daggers already have proportionally high damage, blunt 1h seem strong enough, pierce 1h maybe a point or 2 wouldn't hurt, but cut 1h is kinda niche and very powerful vs low armour, nearly garbage vs high armour unless a str-build with a very high cut weapon that lacks stab

Daggers got nerfed plenty already, i think it was a bit too much tbh but flat damage increase would probably apply more to the, ahem, viable 1h's.. blunt and pierce are so short, in this high level patch they just feel a bit weak when everyone can easily maneuver out of their reaches, and land easy kicks etc. Swords are decent with high strength, but i think they should be closer to 2h/pole in damage. 1h is all good, but just a notch below 2h/pole in melee which it shouldnt really be.

[Micah]

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

^ a bunch of awful words...i should prob fully wake up b4 posting, but fuck it...people like u are the reason people like me hate the game.

u have to understand...some people, arnt lame ass lonely racist frenchmans who come here cuz they have no irl friends.

some of us come here to play only to, fight, to dominate, to win.

idk how or when computer games or gaming in general became this big social thing, where the objective went from winning to playing to make friends \ having a online place to hangout, or w.e. the fuck...its lame, go outside ffs.

i am competitive gamer, i play hard, and i play to win, i collect tears, and i drink them for everlasting youth ( or some shit, does it matter what they do? they taste GREAT! )

Thanks for so vehemently supporting my case! ^^'
I would not have been able to do a better job at putting a mirror at yourself in such ironic way 

[Mr.K.]

1h is all good, but just a notch below 2h/pole in melee which it shouldnt really be.

Yes it should. It gets a noobproof autoblocking device that is also pretty much the only way to survive ganks in this era of crpg.

[Jona]

Daggers got nerfed plenty already, i think it was a bit too much tbh but flat damage increase would probably apply more to the, ahem, viable 1h's.. blunt and pierce are so short, in this high level patch they just feel a bit weak when everyone can easily maneuver out of their reaches, and land easy kicks etc. Swords are decent with high strength, but i think they should be closer to 2h/pole in damage. 1h is all good, but just a notch below 2h/pole in melee which it shouldnt really be.

Yes it should. It gets a noobproof autoblocking device that is also pretty much the only way to survive ganks in this era of crpg.

Not to mention that 1h without a shield is honestly one of the best dueling classes currently. Their long range (due to animations) also makes them great for supporting others in teamfighting scenarios, while additionally you are also the only person who can swing in clusterfucks due to the short length of the weapon itself. Like seriously gravoth, you even play this game? 1h is top tier.

[Gravoth_iii]

Not to mention that 1h without a shield is honestly one of the best dueling classes currently. Their long range (due to animations) also makes them great for supporting others in teamfighting scenarios, while additionally you are also the only person who can swing in clusterfucks due to the short length of the weapon itself. Like seriously gravoth, you even play this game? 1h is top tier.

I do play it, i played plenty of 1h, less 2h and tons of polearm. 1h is good yes, but against heavy armors it hits for jackshit. Its definitely the best in teamfights maybe falling slightly short of a pokey polearm. I still feel that it could use a slight buff. First of all, the shield is a ton of weight, and needed to make 1h usefull in a cluster. The long reaching animations are very slow, and gets outsped by most. The slightly lower damaging weapons forces you to build around higher powerstrike, which makes you slow with already extra weight. And being slow with slightly shorter reach than the others makes you very easy to kick. I think the increase in damage would simply make it more viable vs higher armors while staying basically the same against lower tier armors. It would still be lacking in movement, but atleast on par in damage and with the autoblock.

[Mr.K.]

Getting quite off topic now, but you're forgetting that 1H also gets the smallest movement speed penalty of the three melee classes due to lighter and shorter weapons. The turnrate is extremely good as well compared to 2h and polearm. I have a habit of trying to avoid overheads by sidestepping, that I learned when all weapons had the same turn rate lock. It still works against most 2h, all polearms, but fails against 1H all the time. Definitely not a weak class.

And the other thing with 1h is that while it might be a slightly worse class for highly skilled veteran players, it's much easier for average and below average players. Great animations, good speed and no directional blocking. Also try to see it from the eyes of an average player that can hardly block those 1H swings, let alone think about kicking them while doing that. 1h weapons are the opposite of 1d/2d weapons in this game, which are absolute garbage for a noobish player, but borderline OP in the hands of a chase or knitler.

Steelpick-bots can kill me with three hits when tryhard with my fullplate str-build. Those animations can't miss my big head...

[Gravoth_iii]

Getting quite off topic now, but you're forgetting that 1H also gets the smallest movement speed penalty of the three melee classes due to lighter and shorter weapons. The turnrate is extremely good as well compared to 2h and polearm. I have a habit of trying to avoid overheads by sidestepping, that I learned when all weapons had the same turn rate lock. It still works against most 2h, all polearms, but fails against 1H all the time. Definitely not a weak class.

And the other thing with 1h is that while it might be a slightly worse class for highly skilled veteran players, it's much easier for average and below average players. Great animations, good speed and no directional blocking. Also try to see it from the eyes of an average player that can hardly block those 1H swings, let alone think about kicking them while doing that. 1h weapons are the opposite of 1d/2d weapons in this game, which are absolute garbage for a noobish player, but borderline OP in the hands of a chase or knitler.

Steelpick-bots can kill me with three hits when tryhard with my fullplate str-build. Those animations can't miss my big head...

I was playing a bunch of steel pick madness recently, unfortunately lag clouds its true potential, but it was very tough to play. So incredibly short that any capable player would just spam or kick. It had its moments though, it would sometimes hit for massive damage, but that damage felt like it was just the average i would hit with a polearm.

[Jona]

Go 21-27 with decent armor and a longer 1h with a good speed/damage balance, something like one of the arming swords. Then tell me (pure) 1h is hard. Or alternatively try even more agi and a stab-focused 1h sword or spammy leiuediao (fuck spelling).

[gallonigher]

The 1h class needs a substantial nerf when used without a shield. No self-respecting soldier from this time period would pick up a 1-handed weapon and nothing else to fight against a 2-handed sword or polearm.  (I challenge anyone to find me medieval drawings of 2 evenly-matched warriors where one of them is using a 1-handed weapon and the other using a 2-handed weapon)

I see too many people running around like wannabe fencers from the renaissance.  It looks and feels out of place in this game.  They should WANT to carry a shield but they're too effective without them and therein lies the problem.

[Rando]

NOOOO! 
Please tell me you are joking 

I really like the new stab, eventhough i know i would score better with the old one. Thats the main mistake in most arguments imo, that people only argue for effectiveness and never immersiveness! Never really trying to embrace and appreciate the new thing the way it is itsellf, always comparing back to the old (which btw they had crieed about the same way they do now with the new stab!).
Giving in to those arguments is a sign for me that we are degenerating into a playership of foolish, overoptimizing damage and score whores. It saddens me, that we cant reach a balance between beauty and score-whoring by ourselfs(meaning: independently from the native game) - but we go for score and thereby blocking the way for new and future creativity  in the mod.
For me the new stab is perfect in its own way, making a succecssful hit way more gratifying than the old one, feeling clumbsy and hard to pull off but physically correct and looking good still  - and because its not a nobrainer insta kill with no relation to a physical process!

SIMPLY SAD!   

I suppose you find it immersive when someone breaks their back with this new stab animation, in order to look straight up in the air with their sword and then pull down?

You're making a good case for the native stab coming back by saying it's much more gratifying to land a hit with this new one, since it's so difficult. Feels like you've got to go on a rollercoaster ride with your mouse to make it work - pretty much forget about using it in duels.

The 1h class needs a substantial nerf when used without a shield. No self-respecting soldier from this time period would pick up a 1-handed weapon and nothing else to fight against a 2-handed sword or polearm.  (I challenge anyone to find me medieval drawings of 2 evenly-matched warriors where one of them is using a 1-handed weapon and the other using a 2-handed weapon)

I see too many people running around like wannabe fencers from the renaissance.  It looks and feels out of place in this game.  They should WANT to carry a shield but they're too effective without them and therein lies the problem.

Honestly, I feel like the reason that most of these "1h no shield" guys are so effective is because of a massive amount of AGI. Might be a few exceptions - e.g. Voester/JayJrod. What you're saying is absolutely correct to my knowledge, though: I can't imagine anyone in reality choosing to use a 1-handed sword without a shield.

To get some insight into another reason people might choose not to use a shield with 1 handers: some people might just feel cheap using them. I know I feel like a complete shmuck whenever I use a shield, because my blocking isn't improving when all I have to do is right click.

[kwhy]

old stab could use some glitter and bedazzles...rainbow swing trails.

plz add.


 

[Jarlek]

Getting quite off topic now, but you're forgetting that 1H also gets the smallest movement speed penalty of the three melee classes due to lighter and shorter weapons.
-snip-

Remember that there's an extra penalty for 1h weapons when it comes to movement penalty for weight.

A 1 weight 100 reach 1h slows you down more than a 1 weight 100 reach polearm or 2h.

(click to show/hide)

-snip

From this plot it can be seen that an increase in weapon length will increase run time for a given weapon weight, and an increase in weapon weight will increase run time for a given weapon length. One-handed weapons appear to count as more weight than two-handed or polearm weapons of the same in game weight for the purposes of this run time increase:

Listed one-handed weapon weight                      Effective weight for calculation
                 1                                                                         1.5
                1.5                                                                        2
                 2                                                                          3

-snip

http://forum.melee.org/beginner's-help-and-guides/running-in-crpg/

[Dionysus]

The 1h class needs a substantial nerf when used without a shield. No self-respecting soldier from this time period would pick up a 1-handed weapon and nothing else to fight against a 2-handed sword or polearm.  (I challenge anyone to find me medieval drawings of 2 evenly-matched warriors where one of them is using a 1-handed weapon and the other using a 2-handed weapon)

I see too many people running around like wannabe fencers from the renaissance.  It looks and feels out of place in this game.  They should WANT to carry a shield but they're too effective without them and therein lies the problem.

I struck out everything that isn't relevant to game discussion. You can use history and realism to make your game intuitive (polearms stop horses etc.), but historical accuracy does not make for better gameplay. This was the crux of the issue for the 2h stab change.

Penalizing players for not using a WPF for a specific playstyle kills diversity and streamlines the game. I don't think this affects anyone but themselves.

[Halk]

I struck out everything that isn't relevant to game discussion. You can use history and realism to make your game intuitive (polearms stop horses etc.), but historical accuracy does not make for better gameplay. This was the crux of the issue for the 2h stab change.

Penalizing players for not using a WPF for a specific playstyle kills diversity and streamlines the game. I don't think this affects anyone but themselves.

Couldn't have said it better. M&B never was a medieval-simulator, it's just the theme of the game. I'm not saying that the developers didn't do their homework on the medieval stuff but really.. do we have to start replacing animations just because some stance is not realistic compared to actual medieval combat and replace it with semi-useless "wagabungahocheirwhateverthefuck"-stance seen in some medieval painting.. holy shit

And before some cumchugger comes whining about the previous stab being too OP, wasn't the original reason for the change that the native-stab just looked stupid and unrealistic?

[BlackxBird]

I TRAINDED NOW 3 WEEKS ONLY THE STAB. NOTHING ELSE. WAS JUST ABUUZING IT LIKE NOBODY ELSE DID. EVERYDAY CHILLIN ON EU 3.

and now u revert it. Why