Satiric newspaper attacked in France

[Leshma]

Western cultures are the most peaceful, tolerant and prosperous on the entire planet.

Are you sure its the culture and not living conditions which shape the way people act and their culture?

[Oberyn]

Are you sure its the culture and not living conditions which shape the way people act and their culture?

You don't think the reverse might have some effect as well?
The Gulf countries have some of the highest GDP per capita on the planet, and have had them for decades. China is going to surpass the US as the largest economy in the wolrd relatively soon, I doubt we're going to see western style policies anytime. The Han cultural supremacy and routine racism (chinese give zero fucks about racism. East asians in general) is just the tip of the iceberg. China has been running a literal eugenics program for decades, something that would brand any western country as dangerous fascists. The increase in wealth isn't going to change that.
It's time to accept that western culture is not some sort of natural endgame for all human collectives. The perspective is ironically ethnocentric.

[Xant]

Greentext from /b is fictional, thank you captain obvious

Obviously someone had to tell you that.

[Oberyn]

It was a lot easier to play syncretism with polytheist religions with pantheons. There's only so many themes for Gods, often natural elements or human virtues, and one chief god that rules over the others. They were  usually limited to geography, in it's infancy religion was about the tribe or the city, an eponymous mythological ancestor that eventually gets deified and is intimately tied to a specific people or geographical location. It's the same pattern the world over. Monotheism with universal claims is a whole different kettle of fish.

[Oberyn]

No one is going to outlaw Islam. This isn't, well, a muslim country. We don't ban or persecute people for their religious beliefs, as long as they're in accordance with the law. There's this little thing called secularism, you may have heard of it. If losing the part of Islam that asserts a muslim must live under a government informed and guided by Islam is too much to give up, then too fucking bad. They can take a fucking hike back to any of the many countries where that is a reality, and may they have much joy of it.
This the cultural battleground. Muslims want special exemptions for their religious beliefs enshrined in law. It boggles my mind that someone who says "It should be against the law to insult or offend a religion" (i.e Islam of course) can be considered a moderate, and yet it's the moderate stance. The extremist stance takes things a little bit further. And the moderates can shake their heads and go "tsk tsk, so horrible. But this could've easily been avoided".

[Leshma]

China has been running a literal eugenics program for decades, something that would brand any western country as dangerous fascists.

Eugenics and population control is not the same. What Chinese are doing is complete opposite of eugenics.

[Oberyn]

Eugenics and population control is not the same. What Chinese are doing is complete opposite of eugenics.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Chinese+Eugenics+Program

Which is a pointless aside anyways. What western country could do "population control" in such a manner? Where would it be politically and socially acceptable? That was why I brought it up in the first place. Could it be that chinese culture is, *gasp*, DIFFERENT? But how could that be?! Aren't all cultures relatively the same, and are all heading towards an inevitable acceptance of multiculturalism and ethnic harmony, because those ideas are so self-evidently right? How much evidence from history and the present do you need before you realize that is simply a delusion?

[Xant]

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[Leshma]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Chinese+Eugenics+Program

Which is a pointless aside anyways. What western country could do "population control" in such a manner? Where would it be politically and socially acceptable? That was why I brought it up in the first place. Could it be that chinese culture is, *gasp*, DIFFERENT? But how could that be?! Aren't all cultures relatively the same, and are all heading towards an inevitable acceptance of multiculturalism and ethnic harmony, because those ideas are so self-evidently right? How much evidence from history and the present do you need before you realize that is simply a delusion?

They can call it eugenics, doesn't mean they are right. Eugenics is a stupid idea which says that human breeding should be controlled (population control is just one part of it as you can see) and that only the best specimen should breed among themselves.

If Chinese did that, people in big cities would be allowed to breed because they have more virtues than those who still live in villages. Those poor villagers would be controlled, imagine one child policy for Chinese villagers. That would mean collapse of Chinese economy in few decades. Exactly what happened in my country, where everybody fled villages, so now we have to import food because we don't produce it anymore which means our economy is non-existent, debt is rising and modern life style in cities means fall of natality. In other words, Serbs are going to be extinct if things keep that way. Chinese need cheap labor, that is why they suppress city folks, because if they allow free breeding in cities, those villagers will fled their poor living conditions and Chinese economy will suffer.

[Oberyn]

I really don't give a shit if you think chinese eugenics is totally cool and different and not an incredibly oppressive intrusion of the government into the private rights and life of it's citizens. Its your prerogative to be a complete fucking idiot, a freedom you indulge in quite often. Again, that wasn't the point of bringing up the "population control" that is routine in China for decades. Please give me an example of how anything even remotely as authoritarian has been done in a western country in the past 30 years. And then start realizing that maybe China just has a different history, a different culture, different mores, and that maybe, just MAYBE, these may have an effect on government policies and popular support for them. The point was to outline that no, western culture is not universal, not everyone is in love with the idea of erradicating their own identities in a misguided attempt at martyrdom for unrealistic ideals.

[lombardsoup]

So instead of a free liberal society with terrorist attacks you'll have an authoritarian oppressive society with lots of terrorist attacks.

Load of crap.  Profiling and more stringent immigration laws, plus deportation for known Islamic fanatics, recruiters, etc is a good first step.

Shifting gears a bit, it seems the French are tired of the religion of pieces

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[Oberyn]

We could start by not allowing deranged salafists funded by the Gulf countries (and deobandis for pakistanis) to openly preach for violence and hatred in european mosques. I agree, it's time to stop homogenizing Islam. Moderates want to distance themselves from extremists? Then DO SO. We know which sects are the problem. Openly reject them, stop allowing them to own the identity.

[lombardsoup]

We could start by not allowing deranged salafists funded by the Gulf countries (and deobandis for pakistanis) to openly preach for violence and hatred in european mosques.

Nah, dats racis', the floodgates have to be left open!

[Falka]

Profiling and putting in place specific immigration laws and deportation

Even if we forgo the morality discussion, you honestly think this would reduce terrorism? Make radical Islamists love your country more? Create more moderates?

Who cares, it would stop more islamists from migrating to europe, that's what matters.

And there's no equation between racism, nazsm or nationalism and being against islamic immigration. 

[Thomek]

For those of you who don't know, the reason nationalism is on the rise is because of Austerity economics and the way the EU was created to benefit the Northern European countries (mostly France and Germany) and not the southern (simplified greatly but still true). I dont like it when people start preaching that spain, Greece etc are all lazy and corruptible Thomek, that's borderline racist and fits perfectly with the neo liberal dogma ofc.

I was being a bit edgy on purpose there. IDK about lazy, probably not. But corrupt they are. I've lost all illusions to how corruption damages a society in Poland. It leads to massive, massive waste of resources, money, health, mental health and justice.

IDK if I want to blame austerity economics or buy that it's a neoliberal dogma. I'm probably a somewhat modern socialist.. I want to stop accumulation of massive wealth through generations. We can have rich people in the world, but they would have had to earn it themselves, not inherit it.  I believe everyone should have a fair start in life, and relative safety if bad luck stacks up against someone, and I believe the state should provide this.

I hate dogmatic ideas on both left and right. Capitalism is awesome, and so are socialist ideas. You just have to dare to mix them in a sensible way. Stop accumulation of wealth by taxing the super rich people very hard when they die. (And lowering taxes for young people who need to set up shop. ) A meritocratic capitalism, with socialism at the bottom creating stable societies. Believe me, capitalism wouldn't be so bad if the world wasn't owned by 5% of the people..