Satiric newspaper attacked in France

[zottlmarsch]

http://news.sky.com/story/1404236/shots-fired-as-paris-suspects-located

[Leshma]

Oh stopping this would be simple. Outlaw and belittle all forms of organized religion. If we are smart enough to figure out that Zeus and Thor do not exist, why do we still believe in these Abrahamic desert myths? The only reason any part of the world is backwards and underdeveloped is because of religion and shamanistic bullshit.

Are you insane? Can't you see how these people in above video are suffering, they are enslaved by communists without an option to express their inner self through their religion. Don't you see how miserable they are?

[Leshma]

i'd want to do everything possible to ensure that anyone instituting that policy did not enjoy a long and happy career.

that policy was never as it sounds on paper. orthodox church was free to operate under stalin, just like budhist temples under mao. main difference was, religion wasn't allowed to become the one and only way to live in previously communist countries, like it is now in those same countries. no one forced in it onto you but you could practice it it freely. without support from the state of course, no national coverage for religious events and no religious national holidays (you could get a day off on basis of your religion).

post communist countries embraced religious doctrine and force it as national identity. those countries are far from secular, religion has huge influence on internal and external political affairs.

belittled is the right word for it, religion is free but most people make fun of it a bit. like in developed countries of today.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

The only reason any part of the world is backwards and underdeveloped is because of religion and shamanistic bullshit.

You'd be amazed how many smart and modern people know that God or the wonders of the bible didn't exist and still call themselves religious and somehow believe in it. I mean, we have theology on western universities, right? They study and know every detail about how each tiny fragment of bible text was written, rewritten and edited by hundreds of people, still they somehow believe in it as a godly thing.

It is a strange thing and perhaps only a relict but I think it was very crucial for the secular development of 'the west' that you could both be scientific and religious.


Also historically your statement is questionable at least, christianizing europe was the only method that actually worked to get people united and 'civilized' in early middle-age. Now it seems we don't need christianity anymore, but how do we got other religions like Islam into that state of secularism and science? Is it the natural evolution of religions, are Muslim behind our timeline or is the Islam not capable of that kind of groundbreaking reform?

[Prpavi]

inb4 France passes "Le Patriot act" and makes France "a safer and more democratic" country.

[Xant]

inb4 France passes "Le Patriot act" and makes France "a safer and more democratic" country.

One can hope.

[Leshma]

christianizing europe was the only method that actually worked to get people united and 'civilized' in early middle-age

are you sure about that? it is called dark age for a reason, you know. most historical sources back up the claim that civilization in roman times was more advanced than what came after, dark ages. religion pushed europe backwards, until Renaissance period which saw huge advance on all fields, to make it up for centuries of poor development and stagnation.

[Daunt_Flockula]

The painful truth in this story is that Islam is still at the crusading stage of the entire process. The only difference is that they call it jihad. Europe used religion to unite people and abandoned it as a societal adhesive soon as it became redundant. Religious wars had been fought centuries ago and were not applicable anymore.

And most people in the Middle East want to do it from scratch. They don't want to unite. They want to kill each other and possible so-called foreign infidels until they remain as the true representative of Islam. They still believe it is a convenient time to go conquering lands.

Other religions have been more or less tamed. Islam still lacks that. Voices rising from among common folk indicate that quite brazenly. And deny it as fucking much as you ever can, the Western democracy approach that constantly stirred the Middle East just like a vegetable soup caused that to a very large extent. Secularity has always been crushed, because it led to a dangerous and unacceptable progress and unity. If the global policing that has been going on in the Middle East had been genuine and come with good intentions, things could have been different. Yet it has always been focused on undermining stability and pillaging of resources.

Don't forget the Greater Middle East project guys. Don't just simply assume that it is a petty conspiracy theory. It has been happening and this is only the initial fallout. These terror attacks may all be staged. There is that possibility. However, most minds in the Middle East are proudly backing them up.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

are you sure about that? it is called dark age for a reason, you know. most historical sources back up the claim that civilization in roman times was more advanced than what came after, dark ages. religion pushed europe backwards, until Renaissance period which saw huge advance on all fields, to make it up for centuries of poor development and stagnation.

Yes, absolutely sure. That 'dark age' myth originates from the first scientific historical texts of renaissance and is still very widespread, but has to be modified at least. What I am mainly talking about in my post is that the first unification of Europe after the Roman Empire done by Charlemagne in the 8th century would have been unthinkable without the christianization. And even 3 to 400 years later many dukes tried to expand for example into the east and it turned out that building a monastery into 'barbaric' lands was far more effective and persistent than simply conquering them, it bind them to the society.

Also further onto the dark age topic, yes of course middle age had aspects that were less advanced than Roman or greek culture, historiography is a good example and witch hunting era and whatnot else. On the other side the middle age provided us with important juristic regulations and not to forget groundbreaking technology like printing. One can't stress enough how important the ability of printing and thus for other people than highest of society to read was for the development of our culture.

Note that this all are very complex themes I tried to simplify in short sentences.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

The painful truth in this story is that Islam is still at the crusading stage of the entire process. The only difference is that they call it jihad. Europe used religion to unite people and abandoned it as a societal adhesive soon as it became redundant. Religious wars had been fought centuries ago and were not applicable anymore.

Dunno what time you are actually speaking about but we had a little war here in europe going on about 30 years were catholics and evangelicals killed each other in best fashion and that was long after the last crusade.

[Daunt_Flockula]

I don't necessarily mean it was killing each other. I actually wanted to point out to the crusades.

[Umbra]

are you sure about that? it is called dark age for a reason, you know. most historical sources back up the claim that civilization in roman times was more advanced than what came after, dark ages. religion pushed europe backwards, until Renaissance period which saw huge advance on all fields, to make it up for centuries of poor development and stagnation.

The dark ages because of relgion is a debunked myth, in truth the monasteries and clergy were centers and keepers of knowledge. The difference in advancment is because since the invention of printing the knowledge became easier to spread and available to much more people. Before that it was meticulously and painstakingly copied by hand by the same clergy that people ironically now comdemn as the reason for dark age "igrnorance".

[Xant]

Dunno what time you are actually speaking about but we had a little war here in europe going on about 30 years were catholics and evangelicals killed each other in best fashion and that was long after the last crusade.

Initially a war between Protestant and Catholic states in the fragmenting Holy Roman Empire, it gradually developed into a more general conflict involving most of the great powers of Europe,[16] becoming less about religion and more a continuation of the France–Habsburg rivalry for European political pre-eminence.[17]

[Umbra]

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[Casimir]

are you sure about that? it is called dark age for a reason, you know. most historical sources back up the claim that civilization in roman times was more advanced than what came after, dark ages. religion pushed europe backwards, until Renaissance period which saw huge advance on all fields, to make it up for centuries of poor development and stagnation.

Can absolutely confirm what umbra said, dark ages in Europe stem from political fragmentation not religion. Dark ages is also not really applicable terminology any more as increasing numbers of sources are found to have survived from this time.

Europe has been through an enlightenment,  rationalism and science are now the core principles and guides of western society. Of course fundamentalists and minority extremists will never accept this but they are a dieing breed.  We have had centuries to put aside our outdated and dogmatic beliefs but the majority of the Muslim people have had 50 years or less. Such a dramatic process will always have dramatic results but attempts to turn this into an ideological war against Islam is exactly what these small minded sociopaths want. This is not the solution and I'm frankly appalled by the number of people on here who seem to think that it is.