C-Rpg Classic

[Kato]

Native combat mechanics and balance is obviously inferior to c-rpg (if only level was capped on 32-33).

But, there's one (other than many noobs to slay ) thing why most people have good time playing native - nice clear weather most of the time.

No fucking night, fog and rain sucking any enjoyment from the game. Especially when there is banner highlight cheat, that negate any meaning of it. 

[Teeth]

The people who prefer crpg, i am glad you prefer crpg, i urge you to always prefer crpg. If you ever get warband-esque cravings it is my dearest wish that you come to crpg to satisfy them. As someone in the warband community said yesterday, what good is the crpg mod if it doesnt keep people like you out of native?

Really, you're gonna be like that now? What kind of people are these 'people who prefer crpg' and how exactly do you think they differ from Native fanboys?

[Leshma]

Not even remotely close to the way that lancers get bullied in cRPG, besides, there are no "lancer or sword cavalry" in native, if you don't have both you're not playing cavalry.

It was the same in cRPG before they changed lances and other long weapons to be unsheatable. Most people can't bother searching the lance on the glitchy ground mesh with ten other weapons already lying around.

[Shemaforash]

It was the same in cRPG before they changed lances and other long weapons to be unsheatable. Most people can't bother searching the lance on the glitchy ground mesh with ten other weapons already lying around.

The "unsheatable patch" had good intentions but it ended up hurting a lot of genuine builds.

[Gravoth_iii]

The people who prefer crpg, i am glad you prefer crpg, i urge you to always prefer crpg. If you ever get warband-esque cravings it is my dearest wish that you come to crpg to satisfy them. As someone in the warband community said yesterday, what good is the crpg mod if it doesnt keep people like you out of native?

Wow, so why dont you just leave then and go native so we can say the same for native?

[Gurnisson]

That's just wrong, lol. It's your lack of experience. Which sounds quite funny to say since we won nations cup.

Well, believe what you want. If melee cavalry didn't have the option to have both lances and swords in native, you'd never see slashing cav there. Lances are far superior to swords in native, which is sad.

It's the best system if you're a promoter of equal stats and skill deciding battles. Even though infantry shield skill should be slightly buffed and perhaps archer fire rate nerfed a bit. The cRPG balancing doesn't come near to perfection as native does, but it can't ever do that because there's a leveling system. That's what's kept me playing cRPG anyway, styling your own hero, not it's sub par balance.

I wouldn't say combat system is the same as balance. While they overlap a bit, they're not the same completely. That being said, I've never been much of a fan of the balance in native either.

[Shemaforash]

Well, believe what you want. If melee cavalry didn't have the option to have both lances and swords in native, you'd never see slashing cav there. Lances are far superior to swords in native, which is sad

Believe, if anyone is qualified to speak about cavalry and its balance then it's me.

[Gravoth_iii]

The ones who'd QQ about ranged being OP if they ever played native. Anyone who thinks the current balance of crpg is good is going to cry endlessly if they ever played native. That's how i interpret it anyway, the comment about crpg being a place to keep the worst scum of the warband community was one made by one of the other many crpg fans out there, you'd have to ask them what it means. For context of the below quote a crpg player had decided to cry about how native should be more like crpg:
Quote from: Alene on December 29, 2014, 10:06:22 PM
cRPG devs should stop developing their own game for a while and look what's happening in cRPG every now and then. I can see one inmate has escaped. What good is that mod if it can't keep those people out of Native?

This discussion is better than ending up with the type of argument i realized we were getting into last page where we start inventing something the other person didnt say and then hilariously misinterpreting it to turn into a straw man: ''What you're saying is this...'', ''By your own admission...''. I saw things were gonna be like, so i made it like this instead. I'm a hero.

It's better we just accept that as we have our own differing opinions on what is 'good' or 'bad' in terms of balance and gameplay, that i go and play Native with the mechanics i feel are superior and better balanced, and you can continue to not play Crpg - the game you feel is superior in all regards. Anyone who's fed up with Crpg, might be fun to give Native another shot for 5mins, you might even find yourself enjoying it.


Because crpg forum is a far more fun game to play than crpg itself. You get better duels, find people who admire your skill and follow your every post trying to bring you down, and it's much more populated than the servers. Also you can play it at work or pretty much around anything.

It's also a great spectator sport, you see what the majority of gamers and warband players think of this community, then i get to come here and observe folk fulfilling every negative stereotype people have of this community. Like when people here post that Native is too easy, but also that ranged is too OP - meaning that the poster isnt actually very good at Native at all. We sit here and tell the M:BG devs we know what people want and we know what features a successful game needs, meanwhile the vast majority of people who've ever heard of or tried crpg think we're a load of wankers who know fuck-all about balance or fun. Only a very small very special kind of minority likes the sort of game this has become.

It's hardly surprising that our community has this magnificent reputation, we QQ for changes till we get them, right up until very few people enjoy the mod anymore and then the same people QQ for everything to be reverted. For the few people who still think this mod is better they're split into 2 categories; the ones who say crpg is great but still wont play because... reasons.... and the other people who still actually play it and seemingly enjoy it. The increasingly rare 2nd type are the ones that i am glad for, they get to be happy without exposing the native community to their own alien concepts of fun or balance - concepts that very few gamers would share.

I read all that passively while thinking about other things and letting out a far or two. I need some coffee i think, and some chocolate.


Played some native with chase and lezard, NeoGK server is complete utter garbage, unplayably laggy why is there 200 players there. And only good part was the turnrate being godly, im not sure how many litres i came from being able do a complete 360 with an overhead swining. PLEASE CRPG DEVS REMOVE TURNRATE RESTRICTION, ITS GARBAGE. Other than that i felt very sad in native with no Q menu spam, no nudging, and just generally boring gameplay with no custom builds or anything.

[karasu]

Anyone who's fed up with Crpg, might be fun to give Native another shot for 5mins, you might even find yourself enjoying it.

Well, I tried again to find any joy in native. I really did. So I went looking for a high populated server, found some siege server with shitloads of players and I even managed to last one map.

I mean, don't take me wrong I felt like a g(p)tx there with skill pouring out of all my body orifices, and the gods know how average of a jack of all trades I am at this game.
End of the map, I had 110+ kills, 20 deaths from berserking balls deep, and the best player from the other team (funny enough, the only guy that actually knew how to feint) had 40 kills.

The only joy I had there, was the fact that the server was full, which means fun target switch dancing. Other than that I really felt bad for what I did there, and this corroborates what I stated here before, native pubs = casual fest (disregard IG, ofc), and it's really god for that. Just that.

My 5 cents.   

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

Native is way too easy IMO. I'm like an average level cRPG player but when I got on the US_GK siege or TDM servers I'm always toping the score boards. The players there are just terrible and the only ones that are any good are just plate crutching with a 2h sword while s keying(which isn't even difficult to beat). Only deaths I usually get is from the ranged shooting me to death.

[Teeth]

The increasingly rare 2nd type are the ones that i am glad for, they get to be happy without exposing the native community to their own alien concepts of fun or balance - concepts that very few gamers would share.

cRPG has since its conception rivalled the pub population of Native and even overshadowed it for like two years straight. With 5-7 of the top 10 populated servers being cRPG for a long time I am sure the concepts of fun and balance were never all that alien. I do not deny cRPG has catered more and more to its core of extremely veteran players and has been made less attractive to the gamer passing by, but don't pretend that cRPG is designed for an extreme niche, it just died of old age for the casuals, probably after a longer time than anyone will actively play NeoGk Siege.

This discussion is better than ending up with the type of argument i realized we were getting into last page where we start inventing something the other person didnt say and then hilariously misinterpreting it to turn into a straw man: ''What you're saying is this...'', ''By your own admission...''. I saw things were gonna be like, so i made it like this instead. I'm a hero.

I did indeed make a reading mistake and I apologize for misinterpreting your point.

[Leshma]

Played some native with chase and lezard, NeoGK server is complete utter garbage, unplayably laggy why is there 200 players there.

There are two neoGK servers, the more populated one (with 150-200 players) is located in Turkey. The other one works much better. ZHG siege is cool, around 50-70 people in there but more skilled than neoGK scrubs. Only thing that could put you off is reflective damage when you teamhit someone. Wolfpack is cool TDM server, there are also two decent DM servers and of course, IG_Battlegrounds.

I play neoGK mainly because of high population, love that shit. Hopefully M:BG or Bannerlord will have servers and maps for 500 players.

[karasu]

that's the one I played I think, ZHG, way more fluid than NeoGK's, but still 0 skill. Literaly only one player there knew how to feint and block.

[Grumbs]

cRPG has since its conception rivalled the pub population of Native and even overshadowed it for like two years straight. With 5-7 of the top 10 populated servers being cRPG for a long time I am sure the concepts of fun and balance were never all that alien. I do not deny cRPG has catered more and more to its core of extremely veteran players and has been made less attractive to the gamer passing by, but don't pretend that cRPG is designed for an extreme niche, it just died of old age for the casuals, probably after a longer time than anyone will actively play NeoGk Siege.

You say the game died because it is old, well why is that not the same for native? I believe a problem with the current game is that it is not "retirement" friendly anymore, and retiring is one of cRPG's original selling points. To level up a new character and try to accumulate "endgame" gear in the process. People already have their looms and you can make a lvl 35 STF (even my main who has 350 mil XP is only lvl 37, and I have to make builds like 21/25 to use up the points efficiently) and you can respec every 7 days for free. I think there needs to be some incentive to "grind" to keep the servers populated, although it doesn't interest me much. Its one of the draws of "cRPG" besides the better balance. Besides the balance though the difficulty is a bit too high now imo. Games that balance around the best players can make the barrier to entry too high. There should probably be more viable ways for medium/poor/newbie players to have some enjoyment in the game without discouraging them from learning melee. The melee combat is a bit too unforgiving imo in a "twitch/ping/hardware" way and there isn't much incentive for the vets to stay around either when you feel like you peeked already or are bored.

You heard of the pareto principle? It works in gaming too. The top 20% players negatively impact the gameplay of the lower 80%. Thats why games with high skill floors as well as high skill ceilings have shrinking populations. You gotta have ways for the 80% to lower the impact of the top 20% or at least have them focus on goals outside of the current gaming session.

I'd be tempted to offer more loom points each time you retire, move the STF level lower and/or make the free respec less frequent. People need goals in the game again. My goals were always to try to get better at the gameplay, but even that isn't that appealing now. I feel like I already peaked and I don't find the melee combat that engaging atm

[Teeth]

You say the game died because it is old, well why is that not the same for native?

Well, I can think of two reasons. Firstly, because Native doesn't have such a concentrated community where all the good players share the server with the noobs. Because the experience is so awesome or because the experience is grindy, people tend to play this game for a long time and get very good. Casual gamers get thrown in with a playerbase with very high average skill, add to that better levels and gear and you have one scarecrow for casuals. I know from experience that a huge part of the pub playerbase of Native are either new players or very casual players, because well, they mostly suck. In Native you join a no teamdamage siege server and you instantly get a server with very few veterans.

Secondly, the accessibility probably plays a huge role. Buying this game in a Steam sale and joining a server is a whole lot easier for the casual than downloading a mod and creating an account. Besides, I still maintain that the name cRPG is terribly chosen, I know it scared me off from trying it for a long time because I pictured it as something else entirely. Warband has been sold over a million times. How many of those people do you think made it into a Native server compared to a cRPG server? I imagine Native stays alive due to its playerbase being at least 10 times as big. Most of cRPG's playerbase logged on a retarded amount of hours, but the amount of players was never that big. I imagine Native has way more people with way fewer hours. Would be nice to read some numbers about unique monthly log-ins or something.