Author Topic: C-Rpg Classic  (Read 16300 times)

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Offline San

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2014, 11:41:22 pm »
+2
I prefer incremental changes best, which is why the revival patch was difficult to deal with.

The agi+strength changes from this patch:

-wpf reduction from gloves increased from x4 to x6 and low weight gloves increased
-IF based wpf reduction, with 5IF as the break-even point
-Wpf increases are higher at low WM than higher WM
-Large reduction in wpf penalties for ranged

With no IF and increased glove weight, even 210 wpf builds can go down to 170-180 levels in medium-light armor, -10 to -15 from before. Strength builds that max IF gain ~12-15 wpf even with the glove weight increase. The wpf gap changed from 120-200 to 140-180.

-It wouldn't hurt to make the penalty harsher, but the worse it's made, the more agi builds will just wear cloth and be even faster. Right now, it's set to Str/3 + IF, 6 at minimum for next patch (2 patches ago it was 10). Wpf is reduced exponentially the heavier the armor above the threshold. This is the best I can think of, any ways to improve it will be appreciated. Str/3 helps strength builds with low IF still, while IF helps all characters who want to increase it. I can always remove the 6 minimum, which will hurt players with strength below 18.

-I agree with difficulties. It'll take a while to compile a list for specific weapons, but it may be easier to just make a category X = Y-Z strength kind of thing. Balancers actually discussed increasing difficulties but we couldn't come to a good settlement back then. I think I pushed for too heavy scaling for people to agree.

-problem with buffing PS is that it also gives some power to agi builds who already get 1-2 shot. This will mostly just make it easier to kill balanced and strength builds, since it's tougher to bridge the 2shot->1shot gap than the 3-shot->2-shot gap.

-Only way to reduce acceleration for non-devs is to change the final athletics value after spawning. This means something like subtracting everyone's athletics by 1-2, or halve the scaling after a certain point. Either way, it'll make certain athletic levels useless, which may not even be so bad. I doubt that we can have non-integer skill numbers, but something like that would've helped. More cav/ranged would whittle these numbers pretty easily.

-I had a suggestion for different armor looms based on the weight class. It might be worth reviving since there's little activity. It'll be hard since the only people who can edit items are pretty inactive at the moment, even if it passes.

Overall, I'll try to make a thread about item difficulty and loom tiers, and remove the minimum threshold of 6 on the wpf penalty that helped heavy agi builds, in addition to the cav/ranged stuff that's being voted on. Ranged stuff = better damage on body shots/head shots, worse damage on limbs to better aid the increased accuracy. Cav stuff = remove 0 armor legs, change it to 30-50% bonus damage instead.

Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2014, 11:57:39 pm »
0
I prefer incremental changes best, which is why the revival patch was difficult to deal with.

The agi+strength changes from this patch:

-wpf reduction from gloves increased from x4 to x6 and low weight gloves increased
-IF based wpf reduction, with 5IF as the break-even point
-Wpf increases are higher at low WM than higher WM
-Large reduction in wpf penalties for ranged

With no IF and increased glove weight, even 210 wpf builds can go down to 170-180 levels in medium-light armor, -10 to -15 from before. Strength builds that max IF gain ~12-15 wpf even with the glove weight increase. The wpf gap changed from 120-200 to 140-180.

-It wouldn't hurt to make the penalty harsher, but the worse it's made, the more agi builds will just wear cloth and be even faster. Right now, it's set to Str/3 + IF, 6 at minimum for next patch (2 patches ago it was 10). Wpf is reduced exponentially the heavier the armor above the threshold. This is the best I can think of, any ways to improve it will be appreciated. Str/3 helps strength builds with low IF still, while IF helps all characters who want to increase it. I can always remove the 6 minimum, which will hurt players with strength below 18.

-I agree with difficulties. It'll take a while to compile a list for specific weapons, but it may be easier to just make a category X = Y-Z strength kind of thing. Balancers actually discussed increasing difficulties but we couldn't come to a good settlement back then. I think I pushed for too heavy scaling for people to agree.

-problem with buffing PS is that it also gives some power to agi builds who already get 1-2 shot. This will mostly just make it easier to kill balanced and strength builds, since it's tougher to bridge the 2shot->1shot gap than the 3-shot->2-shot gap.

-Only way to reduce acceleration for non-devs is to change the final athletics value after spawning. This means something like subtracting everyone's athletics by 1-2, or halve the scaling after a certain point. Either way, it'll make certain athletic levels useless, which may not even be so bad. I doubt that we can have non-integer skill numbers, but something like that would've helped. More cav/ranged would whittle these numbers pretty easily.

-I had a suggestion for different armor looms based on the weight class. It might be worth reviving since there's little activity. It'll be hard since the only people who can edit items are pretty inactive at the moment, even if it passes.

Overall, I'll try to make a thread about item difficulty and loom tiers, and remove the minimum threshold of 6 on the wpf penalty that helped heavy agi builds, in addition to the cav/ranged stuff that's being voted on. Ranged stuff = better damage on body shots/head shots, worse damage on limbs to better aid the increased accuracy. Cav stuff = remove 0 armor legs, change it to 30-50% bonus damage instead.

San always being reasonable and in the middle of us agi and str extremists. So there will be more patches coming for us crpg freaks?

I must say, all this discussing balances and stuff makes me play crpg quite a lot more.
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Offline San

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2014, 12:29:19 am »
+3
I have no idea when there's going to be a patch, but it'd be nice to have things ready if the devs spontaneously want to give us one :)

Offline Cup1d

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2014, 10:18:31 am »
0
2011 setup with market was best time of this game. 

Offline Shemaforash

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2014, 11:00:12 am »
+2
together with floorstabbing was were it was at imho.

I guess floorstabbing was more of a thing in cRPG than native considering massive fucking pikes that you can abuse with agility etc, but I wouldn't say warband was made in mind to have the ground as a solid object, the animations are too fucky for that.

I pretty much stopped playing lancer cav after they implemented that. It isn't bad in native because other classes are stronger but as expected, battle mode is ranged and cav playground.

Cavalry and archers dominate battle but generally on smaller maps without infantry there's no solid teamwork, which is necessary in matches. Playing cavalry in cRPG is like riding a lame horse in single player, fucking stupid. Cavalry in cRPG has been nerfed too much and so have archers but what can you do when min-maxing is the only way to play when you're a competitive player and the game doesn't have any competitive elements at all. Native has the same system as Counter-Strike, that's why it's more fun to me, all that matters is skill.

people play this game competitive less than ever.

You mean the shitty barely non-existent competitive scene in cRPG or you talking about the native scene with the soon to be launched Nations Cup 2015 and recently finished WNL Season 4?


Anyway before you go preaching about how I'm a native my old friend realize that I've been playing cRPG since the beginning of 2011 and it isn't a native vs cRPG post. My favorite state of cRPG was when WSE2 was introduced, because it's great, and with the turnrate nerf. I'd like lancers to be playable so they don't get bullied by sword cavalry because they stand no chance. Archers should be buffed but preferably not to their maneuverability. Leaving the levels as they are or reverting them to where they were would be fine, but it'd be nice if newer players can still have a higher level start as it is now where they aren't useless.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 11:04:10 am by Shemaforash »
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Offline Teeth

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2014, 11:50:55 am »
0
I'd like lancers to be playable so they don't get bullied by sword cavalry because they stand no chance.
I have no idea of the state of cav balance in competitive play, but don't sword cavalry get bullied hard by lance cavalry in Native? I find the lancer/slasher cav balance quite good in cRPG, although slasher mechanics are incredibly borky at times. You trade the ability to outreach for the ability to have higher and faster damage output. Lancer is very viable for frontal attacks since the 1h lance stab got its reach fixed. The Heavy Lance currently has longer effective reach than 120 length 2h and 165 length polearm stabs.

Offline Shemaforash

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2014, 11:57:57 am »
+3
but don't sword cavalry get bullied hard by lance cavalry in Native?

Not even remotely close to the way that lancers get bullied in cRPG, besides, there are no "lancer or sword cavalry" in native, if you don't have both you're not playing cavalry. On responding your question you can actually outmaneuver lancers in native with the sword by skill, but there's an unnecessary risk if you ask me. Cavalry battles in native are quite even in general but obviously skill prevails.

I find the lancer/slasher cav balance quite good in cRPG

If you avoid the first hit lancer does then there's nothing the lancer can do but run away forever because he's in a shitty spot where his lance is of no use. The sword cavalry can simply run up to him and keep hitting till no avail because the lancer can't retaliate, guess what, his angle of attacking is not even sideways and since the horses are retarded already you're more than fucked.
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2014, 11:58:38 am »
+1
It's easier to kill a 1h/2h cav as Lancer on cRPG than it is to kill a lancer as 1h/2h cavalry in native, just saying. In cRPG I find slashing cav better shock troops compared to the lancers, but as a lancer you should have a higher success-rate against aware infantry. It's good that one melee cav class can't have their cake and eat it, like in native with the lancers. Need the diversity the different niches presents.

As for native, you people genuinely believe the combat system to be better there? It's flawed, probably possible to still have some fun, but it's pretty gash tbh.
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Shemaforash

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2014, 12:03:26 pm »
+3
It's easier to kill a 1h/2h cav as Lancer on cRPG than it is to kill a lancer as 1h/2h cavalry in native

That's just wrong, lol. It's your lack of experience. Which sounds quite funny to say since we won nations cup.

As for native, you people genuinely believe the combat system to be better there?

It's the best system if you're a promoter of equal stats and skill deciding battles. Even though infantry shield skill should be slightly buffed and perhaps archer fire rate nerfed a bit. The cRPG balancing doesn't come near to perfection as native does, but it can't ever do that because there's a leveling system. That's what's kept me playing cRPG anyway, styling your own hero, not it's sub par balance.
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Offline Xant

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2014, 12:47:16 pm »
+2
I guess floorstabbing was more of a thing in cRPG than native considering massive fucking pikes that you can abuse with agility etc, but I wouldn't say warband was made in mind to have the ground as a solid object, the animations are too fucky for that.
Ayup. This is why I much, much prefer to not have solid ground. It makes for some really retarded situations. A lot of stuff like this, that seems better on paper, was better in 2011 before it was "fixed."
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Offline Shemaforash

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2014, 12:53:55 pm »
+1
Ayup. This is why I much, much prefer to not have solid ground. It makes for some really retarded situations. A lot of stuff like this, that seems better on paper, was better in 2011 before it was "fixed."

While I wholeheartedly agree it's still better than the variation of having solid objects acting as ground in native, the consistency is key. I'd rather see abandoning objects as floor in native because suddenly lancing into an enemy as a cavalry your lance misses and hits the ground and woo you're stunned and most likely dead because no block :^)¨

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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2014, 01:01:43 pm »
+2
Yes. Yes. Yes. This have been the times of glory. This was the time when rageball was still played and archers and cav still have been a threat in battle and kingrim, chase and phase did theire magic on EU.

I am totally for unnerfe of achery and cav.

I have played for 4 years, and to my memory there was never a time when Kinngrim did anything but abuse 350' shield. Honestly I once stabbed him full in back and hit shield, it was a broken mechanic. But he was never a good player, more a Hetman style player: break his shield or backpeddle away from his spam and he was done, or outspam him, since he would seldom chamber, as he was never even able to chose his attack direction, relying instead on a very fast weapon that doesn't glance and randomly clicking his mouse while having 12 ping vs the 90+ping of the russians.

Chase and Phase understand timing footwork and blocking, how to read an opponent and how to bait them into mistakes.

Lets not compare really shit players with good ones, yeah?

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Offline Ikarus

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2014, 01:04:14 pm »
+2
If I was San I would have asked for payment years ago  :mrgreen:
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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2014, 01:09:52 pm »
+1
If I was San I would have asked for payment years ago  :mrgreen:

If I was San I would spend more time reading what active players want, maybe with some way to track who is a forum player and who is an active player :D
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Offline Shemaforash

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Re: C-Rpg Classic
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2014, 01:10:47 pm »
+1
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No I was fully expecting you to see it, however it was more of a prearrangement for the shitstorm you generally bring with you.
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