Author Topic: Hack abooze  (Read 87409 times)

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Offline krampe

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #240 on: May 25, 2011, 02:01:49 pm »
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We can't release the list - if there would be one error, or, lets say, "borderline case" on it, that guy would lose his reputation forever, and I really don't want to say "yeah this guy was on the list, but we took him off again, so he is no cheater any more". Yeah, well, I wouldn't want to be that victim.

I'm not saying that we are unbanning people caught cheating, but we're treating cases individually here. There is hardly any doubt about the evidence, but still, we give people the chance to talk about it.

If the list would be released that chance wouldn't mean shit. The punishment would be done before the end result of the case.

However, we can probably accept that clan leaders can contact someone of the dev team (not me) if a member of them was cheating. We could probably tell that to those people, as I understand they have a justified interest in it.

For the rest, you are just an angry mob that wants to see drama, and I'm not giving in to a mob. Criminals (or in this case, cheaters), have rights too.

Omg, you gave us forks, you gave us torches and now you DENY us the witches to burn?! How rude :(

Who cares let's burn the exmy old friends, they are similar to hags!

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Yeah, well you know, that's just like, your opinion, man.

Offline Tristan

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #241 on: May 25, 2011, 02:05:42 pm »
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We can't release the list - if there would be one error, or, lets say, "borderline case" on it, that guy would lose his reputation forever, and I really don't want to say "yeah this guy was on the list, but we took him off again, so he is no cheater any more". Yeah, well, I wouldn't want to be that victim.

I'm not saying that we are unbanning people caught cheating, but we're treating cases individually here. There is hardly any doubt about the evidence, but still, we give people the chance to talk about it.

If the list would be released that chance wouldn't mean shit. The punishment would be done before the end result of the case.

However, we can probably accept that clan leaders can contact someone of the dev team (not me) if a member of them was cheating. We could probably tell that to those people, as I understand they have a justified interest in it.

For the rest, you are just an angry mob that wants to see drama, and I'm not giving in to a mob. Criminals (or in this case, cheaters), have rights too.

+1
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Offline Korgoth

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #242 on: May 25, 2011, 02:15:45 pm »
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Cheaters will always cheat  :rolleyes:

Amen
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Offline v/onMega

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #243 on: May 25, 2011, 02:27:50 pm »
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Omg, you gave us forks, you gave us torches and now you DENY us the witches to burn?! How rude :(

Who cares let's burn the exmy old friends, they are similar to hags!

P.S. Give xp back on duel server :P

Egoistensau.



Offline Vicious666

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #244 on: May 25, 2011, 02:33:55 pm »
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If there is a thing i  learned   in internet,    when i was admin on clanbase, for looking cheaters on counterstrike and other fps, is that    CHEATERS have no rights.  and by shaming   cheater   you honour the honest.


You make the list, and now tell us  you  not want  to release it,     so you are on double mistake,     first of all if you not wanna that list will be release, you should not make it in first place, becouse soon or later someone will talk.      and the names will be spitted out.   
I played many games online since 1996,  and no community ever protected cheaters under bullshit like they have rights, or  privacy, we talk about internet nicknames here, there is no privacy and there is no rights,      a criminal is a criminal even if is an  e-criminal.     

Nothing bring  me up more rage and disgust than the sensation that some of this scumbag  may return to play with the exact same nick and none of us will know that. and maybe    one of this looser  can end on my clan, or return on his own clan.

so who you are protecting  ?   your community ? or them ?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 02:40:56 pm by Vicious666 »

Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #245 on: May 25, 2011, 02:46:57 pm »
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If there is a thing i  learned   in internet,    when i was admin on clanbase, for looking cheaters on counterstrike and other fps, is that    CHEATERS have no rights.  and by shaming   cheater   you honour the honest.


You make the list, and now tell us  you  not want  to release it,     so you are on double mistake,     first of all if you not wanna that list will be release, you should not make it in first place, becouse soon or later someone will talk.      and the names will be spitted out.   
I played many games online since 1996,  and no community ever protected cheaters under bullshit like they have rights, or  privacy, we talk about internet nicknames here, there is no privacy and there is no rights,      a criminal is a criminal even if is an  e-criminal.     

Nothing bring  me up more rage and disgust than the sensation that some of this scumbag  may return to play with the exact same nick and none of us will know that. and maybe    one of this looser  can end on my clan, or return on his own clan.

so who you are protecting  ?   your community ? or them ?

this
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Offline EyeBeat

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #246 on: May 25, 2011, 02:59:24 pm »
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I have gotten away with using the autoblocker hack because I use it with my huscarl. 

It also messes up when I try to auto manual block with my long dagger.
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Being a smallish community doesn't entitle you to act more like a dick than other communities.

Offline Cicero

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #247 on: May 25, 2011, 03:01:33 pm »
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If you gonna announce the list , people will know who to humiliate and that what a cheater deserves.
After you announce the list , if u gonna say something like "Guys we got the cheater bla bla" then "But we throw his corpse to sea and we finally understand he is innocent." , people will know who to humiliate and that what an admin deserves.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #248 on: May 25, 2011, 04:44:52 pm »
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unlike you, I haz :P

(click to show/hide)

Holy shit allers, that's an old picture. That's from like...the original crpg(the time when you were always being kicked before the goons showed up ;p ). I haven't had the Name Lt_Anders_of_Rose in a long, long time.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 04:46:10 pm by Lt_Anders »
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Offline Nessaj

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #249 on: May 25, 2011, 05:25:25 pm »
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However, we can probably accept that clan leaders can contact someone of the dev team (not me) if a member of them was cheating. We could probably tell that to those people, as I understand they have a justified interest in it.

As long as faction leaders are informed of the vermin in their ranks, all is well, we can call off both the posse and the witch hunt.
THEN justice is served because - hopefully - our faction leaders would protect us against these cheaters being able to prey more on us.

However, I have to say I too do not feel at ease with the indecision to release the list, first it is proclaimed to hold only 100% cheaters and now, well not so sure with the joystick users apparently? I too would not publish a list of names where I am not 100% everyone on it is guilty, BUT, that also speaks to the failure of the detection then, sadly, IF you trust in your detection then release the list, if you do not trust it, then don't, it is really that simple. Otherwise, check for faults as with the joystick, then remove the false positives and release the character names.

Someone also commented on Civil Right issues, that is a very silly statement to make, I know the law, especially how it applicate online, there is nothing about protecting gamer characters or gamer nicknames in the laws ALL AROUND THE GLOBE, nothing what so ever at all. All we have in the gaming world to trust is ourselves, and frankly Vic666 is right (who would have known!) - I've been in and out of the gaming industry for over a decade, in a ton of different fields and I've never seen cheaters be protected like this before -- however some of it indirectly -- but what signal isn't this also sending to people who used that hack and not to mention the guy who created the hack, now he sees that people might get banned, which I doubt he hadn't foreseen, but now just wait for an update on his hack (or a new hack) and then buy a new key. This is the first step to how games become full of cheaters, look at 'gaming history'. Simply banning cheaters is not enough.

Remember, Warband is 5€, that is nothing, not even for a 13 year old, EVERY cheater who is caught WILL buy a new key, find a NEW hack and then return with the same nick just slightly altered, or perhaps a completely new one, either way, all of us honest players, us who donated 24/7 to the game, who try and support the community, and who doesn't cheat or play only with consideration of ourselves, we are cast aside. Very bad decision and move. You will only infest the mod with more cheaters.

I think it is time you think about those who actually support this mod, those who donate to keep it going, cheaters are not here for the community, for you, for us, they're here to ruin the experience for everyone else and derail the development of the game. They do not deserve anything and gaming characters do not have rights, stop bringing 'rights' into an issue like this it is extremely ignorant, we're not talking about releasing peoples real life names, their addresses or even anything that could truly identify them, just simple character names from a small mod.

What this comes down to is whether the development team trusts their detection, or they don't - and since it would seem things as simple as using a joystick would slip by, yea well. Just don't blame it on rights or privacy issues, there is NO ACTUAL LEGAL OBLIGATION. Now. if you simply just do not want to release the list, then sure, that is your provocative, just don't blame it on any sort of legal issue pertaining to gaming - there is none.

-

The fit punishment for cheating is the same as in most eSports:
  • Life time exclusion from all tournaments (If the player participated in any sort of events/tournaments)
  • Permanent ban from the game
  • Gamer/Character nickname released
This has worked well for over a decade without anything bad ever to happen. If someone were indeed innocent they would be proclaimed innocent, officially and publicly, I personally do not recall any issues - ever.


* Typos and less raging about cheaters :wink:
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 05:37:10 pm by Nessaj »
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Offline Joker86

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #250 on: May 25, 2011, 05:43:00 pm »
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That's right. I know from other games where in the forum you can find sticky topics with banned players and the reasons. It's for the sake of transparency (both what happened to players and controlling the admin decisions) and deterrence.

And even if someone was accused being a cheater but then it was revoked, I don't think anyone will attack the player for it anyway.

Example:

Quote
April 1st 2011: Player "Balton" banned for being a gay retard

May 5th 2011: Player "Fros7bite" banned for using external cheat program

Edit: May 6th 2001: Player "Fros7bite" unbanned, cheat detection gave wrong alarm, he was using an Xbox controler with emulator. Full client rights restored.

Who would seriously attack Fros7bite? What for?

Even if it's a top player who is blocking really well: unless he keeps on playing much worse than before his detection you can be sure his blokcing is true, as he probably won't (be able any more) keep on using the hack.
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline LordBerenger

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #251 on: May 25, 2011, 05:51:57 pm »
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Balton was a great visionary. But the Catholic church silenced him as they found his ideas and thoughts offensive! Trolololol
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Offline Meow

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #252 on: May 25, 2011, 05:53:29 pm »
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I am not exactly sure how some people can claim that cheaters are not protected like this anywhere else.
In most games they are just silently banned and you never see them again.
Same happened here.
What i learned from it: Never talk about existing lists again and there won't be any problems...

Offline Nessaj

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #253 on: May 25, 2011, 05:54:26 pm »
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Exactly, common logics there Joker.

Not to mention, Fros7bite, is pretty much the free example proving us right, it is not like it turned into a witch hunt or mob trying to lynch him, in fact everything went pretty civil and straight forward, there is way less trolling in this thread than I would expect seeing in any another game really; Fros7bite came here, proclaimed his innocence, chadz checked it out and now everything is peachy. This whole situation pretty much nullifies all the statements for not releasing the list, the number one reason was not giving in to a mob or witch hunts, but here we have someone labeled a cheater by the detection, coming on the forums to proclaim his innocence and it all worked out, nobody slandered him, he didn't receive hate texts, pretty much couldn't have hoped for a better result here it was perfect, very civilized everyone...

So what is the issue, really?
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Offline Varric

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #254 on: May 25, 2011, 06:01:47 pm »
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It's ture, this announcement was made to reassure people that there's an anti-hack in place, it turned into a pointless witch-hunt.

Now that they know there's an anti-hack, further announcements or updates on the matter will not be necessary, in fact this thread being open in the first place wasn't necessary.