Author Topic: Hack abooze  (Read 87295 times)

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Offline Jambi

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #225 on: May 25, 2011, 06:44:14 am »
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Please avoid witch hunting, you might end up accusing somebody who didn't cheat (like you did right now :|).

Uhm... While i agree with the witchhunt part...

chadz & Co.... kind of provoced the whole witchhunt thing, by not releasing the list.

By not releasing the list it will actually hurt more people, then the actual number of hackers banned.

Skimming thru this whole thread. I can already see people that, are clearly not banned.... been guessed of being one of the hackers.

If the developers want to rule with an iron fist, by keeping things secretive.. like the banned list and patch notes etc.... and troll any opposition too redicule with power displays, you shouldnt have said anything at all about the hack bans.

Either tell us everything, or tell us nothing. By telling us half arsed stuff, you only get disorder.

Yeah, please let's not have any half-assed character assassinations based on little to no information.
+1

Damnit Okin, why do i keep agreeing with you.... might have to soon put you on my "Likeable Admins With Reason" list... wich is very limited to only few :D

But you prolly wouldnt care...
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 07:20:06 am by Jambi »
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Offline Gorath

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #226 on: May 25, 2011, 06:59:26 am »
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Well, the thing is that he's the best US duelist since the times of the closed Warband beta  :wink:

Oh?  Honestly hadn't heard that.  Same nick this whole time?  Never saw him on any native servers pre-cRPG.  Well it would explain why I thought he was the only person worthy of levelling a half-serious accusation on.   :P 

*Wasn't dueling them that got me, I was cool with that and those two were beatable in duels... every now and then... with luck.  It was the blocking a circle of players all with different attacks gangbanging on them that ever made me go "Hmmm... he's good, but he blocked two side swings, an overhead AND a thrust from behind him all at once... interesting..."  I mean, that is pretty redonkulous to watch.   :wink:
And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?

Offline Vibe

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #227 on: May 25, 2011, 07:55:28 am »
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funny thing about all this... posting the list will actually stop the witch hunt. if you dont name em, everyone who is inactive is going to be called a hacker.

Agree here.

Offline Beauchamp

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #228 on: May 25, 2011, 10:18:49 am »
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Look at it this way: anyone you run into from now on has a clean record. However, if anyone you know suddenly disappears off the servers, then maybe, just maybe...
it leads to speculations only, just make it public. i'm not going to read through the whole thread, but i'm sure there were already a couple of accusations against people that were totally innocent and disappeared from servers only to go to vacation or other RL issues and now some people think they are cheaters...
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Offline chadz

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #229 on: May 25, 2011, 10:26:55 am »
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We can't release the list - if there would be one error, or, lets say, "borderline case" on it, that guy would lose his reputation forever, and I really don't want to say "yeah this guy was on the list, but we took him off again, so he is no cheater any more". Yeah, well, I wouldn't want to be that victim.

I'm not saying that we are unbanning people caught cheating, but we're treating cases individually here. There is hardly any doubt about the evidence, but still, we give people the chance to talk about it.

If the list would be released that chance wouldn't mean shit. The punishment would be done before the end result of the case.

However, we can probably accept that clan leaders can contact someone of the dev team (not me) if a member of them was cheating. We could probably tell that to those people, as I understand they have a justified interest in it.

For the rest, you are just an angry mob that wants to see drama, and I'm not giving in to a mob. Criminals (or in this case, cheaters), have rights too.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 10:28:21 am by chadz »

Offline Varric

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #230 on: May 25, 2011, 10:29:42 am »
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Hate you!

Offline Beauchamp

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #231 on: May 25, 2011, 10:50:35 am »
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Hate you!
+1
aye i also wanted to see the drama, of course.

borderline case means those people that played with it once only to test it and deleted it afterwards? aye those were not cheating (at least in my eyes) and shouldn't be on the list. or they might get some 1 month ban or something, but nothing permanent. those that used it on regular basis should be of course banned forever. or 1 usage = 14 days ban - than in the case of those that really abused it it would mean life sentence anyways hehe.
OOODDIIINVALHALLAAAAAAA on the 20th of April 2011: What I know is that... heh, eh ja how can I explain? ...deh feeling to believe in Odin is right, dat is what I say, ja?!

Offline RiPLeY_II

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #232 on: May 25, 2011, 10:56:27 am »
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We can't release the list - if there would be one error, or, lets say, "borderline case" on it, that guy would lose his reputation forever, and I really don't want to say "yeah this guy was on the list, but we took him off again, so he is no cheater any more". Yeah, well, I wouldn't want to be that victim.

I'm not saying that we are unbanning people caught cheating, but we're treating cases individually here. There is hardly any doubt about the evidence, but still, we give people the chance to talk about it.

If the list would be released that chance wouldn't mean shit. The punishment would be done before the end result of the case.

However, we can probably accept that clan leaders can contact someone of the dev team (not me) if a member of them was cheating. We could probably tell that to those people, as I understand they have a justified interest in it.

For the rest, you are just an angry mob that wants to see drama, and I'm not giving in to a mob. Criminals (or in this case, cheaters), have rights too.

This is probably one of the most uttermost defence of civil rights i've seen in a while, and we're to find it in a game forum (sometimes real judges or rulers do it worst than it's been done here).

Good decision chadz, no public and parallel judgement cand do well to the people involved.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #233 on: May 25, 2011, 10:59:24 am »
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Yes, we are an angry mob.
Yes, we want drama.

Witch hunt, witch hunt!

Offline Camaris

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #234 on: May 25, 2011, 10:59:30 am »
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+1
aye i also wanted to see the drama, of course.

borderline case means those people that played with it once only to test it and deleted it afterwards? aye those were not cheating (at least in my eyes) and shouldn't be on the list. or they might get some 1 month ban or something, but nothing permanent. those that used it on regular basis should be of course banned forever. or 1 usage = 14 days ban - than in the case of those that really abused it it would mean life sentence anyways hehe.

No everyone would came and tell us they were not cheating.
Sorry chadz wrote NOT to use that cheat on CRPG servers even if you only want to test it.
I can live with not being told who cheated. I cant live with cheaters getting their account back because they are telling storys nobody can proof wrong.

Offline v/onMega

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #235 on: May 25, 2011, 11:22:28 am »
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Poeple who dont give a damm about others, or consider to go for exploits/hax....oh yeah, they surely deserve something they tried to take away from others...which is fairness.

Dont you think this should be considered as a try to destroy the community, the hard work of any dev and even worse, try to render every deserved, donated euro worthless?

Sorry, but the given arguements for not publishing are all invalid.
Justice and truth are pure and they always hurt, but they are undeniable.

They took the fairness away from us,  now give us something back by giving truth and justice a face atleast.

Offline Armbrust_Schtze

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #236 on: May 25, 2011, 11:26:20 am »
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he already told you in the post you quoted.

not with their old chars, at least.

first: he didnt really explain

second: arent they banned by IP? :p
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Offline Jambi

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #237 on: May 25, 2011, 11:26:49 am »
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We can't release the list - if there would be one error, or, lets say, "borderline case" on it, that guy would lose his reputation forever, and I really don't want to say "yeah this guy was on the list, but we took him off again, so he is no cheater any more". Yeah, well, I wouldn't want to be that victim.

I'm not saying that we are unbanning people caught cheating, but we're treating cases individually here. There is hardly any doubt about the evidence, but still, we give people the chance to talk about it.

If the list would be released that chance wouldn't mean shit. The punishment would be done before the end result of the case.

However, we can probably accept that clan leaders can contact someone of the dev team (not me) if a member of them was cheating. We could probably tell that to those people, as I understand they have a justified interest in it.

For the rest, you are just an angry mob that wants to see drama, and I'm not giving in to a mob. Criminals (or in this case, cheaters), have rights too.

yeah sounds sweet and all... that was prolly an expensive can of insta-bullshit opened.

chadz,

Still doesnt make any sense, why you gave your admins and prolly developers the list of people you banned for cheating. You realy expect your admin and developer tools to keep there mouths shut? lol.. But.. whatever.

Anyways, i guess the mob can expect to see the list, once the people that didnt hack are filtered out.

The people that get banned for griefing or Tking are heavily discussed on the forum... for everybody to see. I dont see any diffrence for people using hacks in order to get banned, not to be publicly ban/unban trailed on the forums.

I'm not saying that we are unbanning people caught cheating, but we're treating cases individually here. There is hardly any doubt about the evidence, but still, we give people the chance to talk about it.

We give people a chance to talk about it...... lol.

Write a 500 word essay about donkey ass justice :D

Insta trial and execution..... but, you are kind enough to hear the convict out.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 11:59:42 am by Jambi »
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Offline Joker86

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #238 on: May 25, 2011, 01:59:36 pm »
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Until now I thought you didn't want to publish the list because you are just not a person who does things like that, which I could not identify with, but I would at least understand if you had a bad feeling about putting someone on the pillory, not everyone has (or is supposed to have) the needed "hardship".

But then you wrote something really important: the fact that you can't be entirely sure if someone really was cheating or not!

This is very important, as some of us don't want to be banned for using a program running in the background and influencing the game... like Teamspeak overlay!

Considering this fact that we know about this fact now, I think every ban will be seen with different eyes. So publishing the list would surely NOT totally kill the reputation of a player. Especially not if the only thing he was using was an Xbox-controller, and people know he wasn't D'Artagnan on the battlefield blocking three opponents simultaneously.

This insecurity lets me think about the ban time aswell. First of all: if you planned on banning cheater forever, then where is the interest in protecting their reputation? What do they need it for yet?

But as the ban can be unjustified, I would usggest the following thing:

Ban for a certain time (1-3 months) and character reset to level 1. So if he wants to, he can keep his name and go on playing after some time. If he does so, it is a pretty sure sign of a will to improve, and I am sure if he keeps on playing without hack, and probably sucks at the beginning, but is getting better and better at blocking (and behaves kindly to his fellow players, of course), people will appreciate this, and be more like "See? Cheating was unnecessary, you CAN block!", as - to be honest - a single well blocking enemy some months ago won't put you in such a rage. Killing the reputation first is a MUST, as this reputation was unjustified!

But if he chooses to change his name he doesn't need his reputation any more, so there is no need to protect his name. (Next to the fact, that I, among many others, think, that they didn't deserve this protection at all)

In both cases it's unlikely that they will cheat again, as they know you are watching it (and probably especially them), and you said it's a technological race, so you will never know if your new hack won't be discovered again. Btw. if this really happens a lifetime ban should be adequate.

The list has also the great purpose of deterring future hackers. They know they won't be banned secretly and leave behind a good reputation of a mighty warrior, they know people will be told about what they did. And as most of us are above 12 and should know what they do, they are all responsible for their deeds and thus should take the consequences.


Just think about it this way:

What will happen if you publish the list, and what will happen in you don't!

I think if you publish it you will punish those who deserved it, you will calm down the community and you will provide a deterrence for future hackers.

If you don't punish it you will start the real witch hunt with wild accusations and a lot of gossip behind the backs of others, you are telling hackers that in worst case they lose their character, but they will still have the satisfaction of having been "KillaKnight96", a well known player and name in the community and a nightmare on the servers. And you are giving a hint that you don't really need to feel responsible for what you do, as you are protected from the consequences by keeping your name secretly.

The only problem are the wrong bans, but I think hiding the names would be the wrong measure.
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Tzar

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Re: Hack abooze
« Reply #239 on: May 25, 2011, 02:01:26 pm »
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If people are cought with the hack they should be perma banned lol

Dont give em the chance to comeback in 14 days or 1 month and rinse and repeat...

Cheaters will always cheat  :rolleyes:
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.