Author Topic: Suicide  (Read 5998 times)

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Offline Taser

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2014, 10:27:31 am »
0
My personal opinion is that assisted suicide should be available from a certain age onwards, regardless of any illness. The procedure should be demanding and allowing no rash decisions of course, like doing multiple talks with a doctor psychologist over the course of half a year or even a year. Old people cost a lot of money to any society and for example Western-European society has and will have a disproportionate amount of old people for a while still. Is it morally defensible to spend tons of money on someone who doesn't want to live anymore, while this money could used to lighten the hefty tax burden of people that do want to live? On that note, societies should also realy stop spending tax money on 6 digit cost medical procedures to prolong the life of people over 80 years old.

No problems here. I don't think it demands such strict standards to quiz whether people want to kill themselves if you're allowing people with a cold to undergo it.

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On just suicide alone, I think that you are pretty bad at relativizing if you see the need to kill yourself as a young person in Western society and it is not a deed I find worthy of any respect. It's pretty easy to enjoy life, but then I am a cold-hearted asshole. Sure it is easily morally defensible as a personal right, but to protect people against poor decisions, the barriers for committing suicide under a certain age should not be reduced at all. Does anyone here taking the 'suicide is a right' route think that there should be assisted suicide for young people?

Poor decisions? Worthy of any respect?

Which implies there are decisions that are not poor or are of worth. A sentiment I don't agree with. And its not really the point anyway even if it is a poor decision or something not to be respected.

And why are you taking on the responsibility of protecting people against poor decisions via suicide? Do you think we should stop people from making any poor decision as well?

And its not a right.. its simply the ability to do so. Most people I run across think people should have freedom to make their own choices, for good or bad. Do you? If you do, why is suicide something someone should be stopped from doing? If its due to risk to other people, sure.. fine. Make a suicide booth or something. If its to protect people from themselves.. lol. That's a shame.

And there are no barriers to suicide.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2014, 12:09:32 pm »
+8
Suicide is probably the only thing a human can do that isn't selfish.
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Offline POOPHAMMER

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2014, 12:27:42 pm »
+2
If someone wants to die just let them die, this is coming from a person that has battled suicidal thoughts for almost his whole life.
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2014, 01:00:12 pm »
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Which implies there are decisions that are not poor or are of worth. A sentiment I don't agree with. And its not really the point anyway even if it is a poor decision or something not to be respected.
Of course poor decisions exist. If you ever regretted a decision you made, then it was a poor decision. You made a decision in the situation back then, without having all the information available and it later turned out to be a decision you had rather not made or made differently. I'd say suicides are often very poor decisions brought about by a temporary slump, mental illness or strong emotions that the person could regret later.

And its not a right.. its simply the ability to do so. Most people I run across think people should have freedom to make their own choices, for good or bad. Do you? If you do, why is suicide something someone should be stopped from doing? If its due to risk to other people, sure.. fine. Make a suicide booth or something. If its to protect people from themselves.. lol. That's a shame.
You are stating right here that suicide is a choice and that nobody should take away that choice, so that implies it is an individual right in your eyes. Semantics aside, I do indeed think that people should not have the freedom to make spur of the moment decisions with indefinite results like, you know, death, because at certain points people really suck at making decisions. It is why you don't let kids decide if they want a tattoo and why someone who's completely emotionally exhausted shouldn't decide whether he should kill himself. They are not able to make a decision that they surely won't regret. You might not realize this, but the fact that you have to get a gun (which is pretty hard here), slit your wrists, find drugs to OD on or jump in front of a train are barriers to committing suicide. It could be made much easier if the government would assist, practically, but it would also be made more respectable culturally. I don't think they should, but what do you think?

If someone wants to die just let them die, this is coming from a person that has battled suicidal thoughts for almost his whole life.
Why? As an American, born with more priviliges than 90% of the Earth's population, how can you not figure out a way to live that is preferable over nothing? I'd live a 1000 years if I had the choice, no doubt.

Offline POOPHAMMER

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2014, 01:48:05 pm »
+2
It is just how I am. I can not really explain it nor do I think anyone else could. Having more privilege has absolutely nothing to do with being depressed. I have tried many things to stay happy, and really the only reason I keep on truckin on is I do not want loved ones to be hurt, even though I have attempted it by overdosing on more than one occasion. Who knows I may get what I want one day.
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Offline POOPHAMMER

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2014, 01:51:21 pm »
+1
People with a mind like mine, there is no healing it the only escape is death. Why should they prolong their suffering any more than they should have to?
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Offline Vovka

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2014, 02:20:40 pm »
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People with a mind like mine, there is no healing it the only escape is death. Why should they prolong their suffering any more than they should have to?
they must continue to live to serve their masters  :P
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2014, 04:28:43 pm »
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Offline Tibe

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2014, 05:12:37 pm »
+1
(click to show/hide)

 Poor people from 3rd world country have their own goals and modern world country's people have theirs. Both get depressed and feeling of misery. Just due to different things. But thats cause people from different planets have different perspectives of life and success. But feelings are roughly the same.

As much as I understand, is that we all have our own pressure points, people are different and some people's points are constantly pushed, while others are hardly ever touched.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 05:46:21 pm by Tibe »

Offline Kafein

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2014, 05:46:37 pm »
+1
Some people think suicide is the only way to prove that you have free will over your natural behavior, but it doesn't prove anything as the decision to suicide still derives from your brain processes.

While I don't reject the idea of giving each individual a right of life and death over himself, giving absolute freedom in that department does create a few practical problems when it comes to people pushing others to commit suicide. Obviously enough, you don't want cults being able to perform mass suicides with impunity.

Offline Falka

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2014, 07:45:03 pm »
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Heh, selfish or not, it's everyone's right to make whatever you want with your own life.

People with a mind like mine, there is no healing it the only escape is death.

While I'm reasonably happy with my life, never was depressed or sth like that, 2 times in the past when I was completely drunk I've tried to kill myself, trying to jump out of the window and cutting my wrists. Fortunately my friends stopped me from it. Since then I don't drink vodka any more, it's bad for me  :wink: But drunk or not, I guess it says something about your mind, trying to commit suicide without any real reason. Not sure what exactly though  :P
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Offline Taser

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2014, 08:48:36 pm »
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Of course poor decisions exist. If you ever regretted a decision you made, then it was a poor decision. You made a decision in the situation back then, without having all the information available and it later turned out to be a decision you had rather not made or made differently. I'd say suicides are often very poor decisions brought about by a temporary slump, mental illness or strong emotions that the person could regret later.

That just means you regretted a decision not that it was an objectively poor decision which is what I was getting at.

Regardless, if someone wanted to commit suicide and they didn't see it as a poor decision, whats the issue?

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You are stating right here that suicide is a choice and that nobody should take away that choice, so that implies it is an individual right in your eyes. Semantics aside, I do indeed think that people should not have the freedom to make spur of the moment decisions with indefinite results like, you know, death, because at certain points people really suck at making decisions.

Choices don't mean that its a right. I don't believe in rights. So its not semantics.

Regardless I do know that many people do believe in rights and that people want to be free to make their own choices. So if you do, why stop it at suicide even if it is something that results in death? Why can't someone be trusted with their own life? Because they might take it? That seems a bit of a control freak.

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It is why you don't let kids decide if they want a tattoo and why someone who's completely emotionally exhausted shouldn't decide whether he should kill himself. They are not able to make a decision that they surely won't regret.

Sure talk to them and see why they're ready to kill themselves if you want.

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You might not realize this, but the fact that you have to get a gun (which is pretty hard here), slit your wrists, find drugs to OD on or jump in front of a train are barriers to committing suicide. It could be made much easier if the government would assist, practically, but it would also be made more respectable culturally. I don't think they should, but what do you think?

Not what I mean by barriers to suicide. Anyone can come to the conclusion that suicide is a good way to go and then come up with a way to do it. This is what I mean. That's not a barrier. Sure there's things they would need in order to accomplish their plan such as a gun or a rope or pills, etc but that's not really a barrier to someone that is ready to commit suicide.

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Why? As an American, born with more priviliges than 90% of the Earth's population, how can you not figure out a way to live that is preferable over nothing? I'd live a 1000 years if I had the choice, no doubt.

Implying life is better than death. Both are equal in terms of how much they matter. To say otherwise is to take into account premises that are completely assumed to be true without basis.

If one has preferences towards life over death, then ofc you'll live a bit longer or want to. If you don't, you'll prefer death in whatever way you prefer to meet it.
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Offline Dezilagel

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2014, 08:53:27 pm »
+1
While I'm reasonably happy with my life, never was depressed or sth like that, 2 times in the past when I was completely drunk I've tried to kill myself, trying to jump out of the window and cutting my wrists. Fortunately my friends stopped me from it. Since then I don't drink vodka any more, it's bad for me  :wink: But drunk or not, I guess it says something about your mind, trying to commit suicide without any real reason. Not sure what exactly though  :P

And I thought I was a bad drunk  :o
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Offline Radament

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2014, 09:11:14 pm »
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If one has preferences towards life over death, then ofc you'll live a bit longer or want to. If you don't, you'll prefer death in whatever way you prefer to meet it.

what if i'm a necromancer and i like death but want to stay alive to command my minions?  :?
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Offline Clockworkkiller

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Re: Suicide
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2014, 09:12:33 pm »
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life is like a box of Chocolates, yes, you never know what your gonna get and you may find some really shitty pieces of chocolate in your box, but those shitty pieces don't ruin the rest of the box.
suicide is like throwing away that entire box, with no chance of getting it back. why should we allow anyone to waste their box like that?

EDIT: This is my belief for the non-terminally ill, a terminally-ill person should have the right end their own life, but only as a last resort and with the dignity to do it themselves on their own terms
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 10:20:35 pm by Clockworkkiller »
You are a horrible human being clockwork.

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