Arrows Complaint Wine thread

[Azuma]

So 24-21 / 27-18 archers seem to be the new meta? I still think ammo can increase by 2-3, still less than before though. I'm hesitant on any large jumps between patches if things do change, because archers have yet to acclimate to the best builds for the patch. Other balancers seem to be playing archer builds recently so they'll probably get more robust results than me (I usually play throwers).

30/12 and 30/15.

[Blackbow]

they dont give a fuck of archery their goal is just to kill a class like they did with all horse ranged ....

Go get a shield melee weapon.

It looks like ranged will either have to suffer the consequences of having a pure ranged build or will have to change themselves to be able to fight in melee to counter melee. Just like how every other class is supposed to "get a shield" you should "get a melee weapon".

plz dont speak about stuff you dont know ....

we was able to defend in melee before ... but now we are forced to be full str build with low ath heavy amount of arrows to carry when they push all class to be agiwhore ...

10 pd make us more accurate than 10 wm ... fucking retard merican logic !!

and about arrows yeah this amount is so fucking retarded, its fucking impossible to do long range shot now coz in 2 sec you gonna be empty ...

and one day i hope devs will understand than archery is best way to balance cavs population and vice versa ....

last patch was a fucking huge cav buff by nerfing archers ....


plz devs give up with crpg leave developent job plz ... patch after patch it's worst ....

all community regret the crpg of 4 years ago ... devs know one word .. no no it's not balancing... it's nerf !!

they always fix a problem by adding an other problem instead

pure example :
omg ha are too accurate instead of nerf their accuracy lets decrease their horse speed ....
FUCKING GENIUS IDEA !!!!.... where is the logic ??

have you see tydeus play with his archer ?
he stick with all team and shoot from 2 meter maximum right in melee ... if he could he would use a shotgun ...
but he know archery you know ...

FUCKING GENIUS !!!!

[San]

He posted some possible stats, so it would help for the few archers on forums to comment on that. Only saw HappyPhantom so far.

Ideologically, what do you think about light archers being mobile with limited ammo/power while heavy archers are around the same as now, maybe with a tiny bit more damage or ammo for everyone? Light archers will have trouble defending a position and go through shots quickly, but they'll be able to relocate and scavenge for ammo. Str archers will be good at defending a single spot with melee support.

[Azuma]

they dont give a fuck of archery their goal is just to kill a class like they did with all horse ranged ....

plz dont speak about stuff you dont know ....

we was able to defend in melee before ... but now we are forced to be full str build with low ath heavy amount of arrows to carry when they push all class to be agiwhore ...

10 pd make us more accurate than 10 wm ... fucking retard merican logic !!

and about arrows yeah this amount is so fucking retarded, its fucking impossible to do long range shot now coz in 2 sec you gonna be empty ...

and one day i hope devs will understand than archery is best way to balance cavs population and vice versa ....

last patch was a fucking huge cav buff by nerfing archers ....


plz devs give up with crpg leave developent job plz ... patch after patch it's worst ....

all community regret the crpg of 4 years ago ... devs know one word .. no no it's not balancing... it's nerf !!

they always fix a problem by adding an other problem instead

pure example :
omg ha are too accurate instead of nerf their accuracy lets decrease their horse speed ....
FUCKING GENIUS IDEA !!!!.... where is the logic ??

have you see tydeus play with his archer ?
he stick with all team and shoot from 2 meter maximum right in melee ... if he could he would use a shotgun ...
but he know archery you know ...

FUCKING GENIUS !!!!

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[Azuma]

He posted some possible stats, so it would help for the few archers on forums to comment on that. Only saw HappyPhantom so far.

Ideologically, what do you think about light archers being mobile with limited ammo/power while heavy archers are around the same as now, maybe with a tiny bit more damage or ammo for everyone? Light archers will have trouble defending a position and go through shots quickly, but they'll be able to relocate and scavenge for ammo. Str archers will be good at defending a single spot with melee support.

Please... Try archer...

Make an alt char. Please.

[XyNox]

Wow, you guys.

How many more times and in how many more threads do you want to point out whats wrong with the patches ?

Tydeus already openly admitted more than once that his priority is to make melee the go to class of this mod, for newcommers or veterans alike, even if it means overnerfing ranged or cav. Tydeus is just that kind of guy who will rather try to find/make up an argument in order to justify his actions instead of standing up for it and taking the brunt of complaints.

And btw

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they dont give a fuck of archery their goal is just to kill a class like they did with all horse ranged ....

plz dont speak about stuff you dont know ....

we was able to defend in melee before ... but now we are forced to be full str build with low ath heavy amount of arrows to carry when they push all class to be agiwhore ...

10 pd make us more accurate than 10 wm ... fucking retard merican logic !!

and about arrows yeah this amount is so fucking retarded, its fucking impossible to do long range shot now coz in 2 sec you gonna be empty ...

and one day i hope devs will understand than archery is best way to balance cavs population and vice versa ....

last patch was a fucking huge cav buff by nerfing archers ....


plz devs give up with crpg leave developent job plz ... patch after patch it's worst ....

all community regret the crpg of 4 years ago ... devs know one word .. no no it's not balancing... it's nerf !!

they always fix a problem by adding an other problem instead

pure example :
omg ha are too accurate instead of nerf their accuracy lets decrease their horse speed ....
FUCKING GENIUS IDEA !!!!.... where is the logic ??

have you see tydeus play with his archer ?
he stick with all team and shoot from 2 meter maximum right in melee ... if he could he would use a shotgun ...
but he know archery you know ...

FUCKING GENIUS !!!!

I find that post quite funny considering it comes from an item advisor

[San]

Please... Try archer...

Make an alt char. Please.

We are going nowhere with no discussion. I'm not great enough in archery to make judgements just from playing, so the easiest way is to ask those experienced what kind of play will be balanced, but enjoyable. Pros and cons for any choice while avoiding toxic scenarios.

[Azuma]

We are going nowhere with no discussion. I'm not great enough in archery to make judgements just from playing, so the easiest way is to ask those experienced what kind of play will be balanced, but enjoyable. Pros and cons for any choice while avoiding toxic scenarios.

Thank you for being concise.

A new archer does not complain on the forums because they have not known what archery was before today.
When we say that we do not clearly have enough arrows in our quiver is that it is true and that we do not find it playable.
The problem of archery in this game is that you Balancers, are persisting to nerf this class everytime than there is a buff for Melee.
An archer is not used to kill, but to weaken the enemy lines (excepted in reality ...) A single archer is that there is weaker in this game.

They are victims of injustices for the happiness of melee caprice/whim/freak/vagary/tears.
You cannot even imagine what a hard task is to be a good Archer, especially today.
you continue to oppress us, we must adapt our builds for each patch. We went from (lvl36) 18/27 or 21/24 to 30/12 and 30/15 ...

What is still wrong in archery for you ?


Your system (exemple) :
They have the capacity of shooting arrows, and from too far btw ? = Then Decrease the max range to -70% maybe, put 5 arrows per quiver MW and of course, nerf damages.

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[njames89]

20 bodkins max does suck considering how many shots it can take to take down one plated knight/horse.

[Azuma]

20 bodkins max does suck considering how many shots it can take to take down one plated knight/horse.

20 Bodkin for a Plate Knight/Horse ?! You are easy my friend hahaha

To kill a normal 2h wearing a Kuyak, you need 5 arrows in Chest with Bodkins and Longbow MW. (with a 24/21)

If you still hit him each arrow shooted, and if there is no fucking invisible wall.

You have a 14 arrows MW Bodkin quivers... Calculating.............. Survival time : 17 sec.

[Rico]

this archer nerf was overkill

[Gravoth_iii]

I still see just as many archers as ever, and they are still annoying. I didnt feel they needed a big nerf like this but i have dreamt for a long time of ammo nerfs.

[Blackbow]

We are going nowhere with no discussion. I'm not great enough in archery to make judgements just from playing, so the easiest way is to ask those experienced what kind of play will be balanced, but enjoyable. Pros and cons for any choice while avoiding toxic scenarios.

guys you made this patch without any ranged as item balancer...

before patch i applied as item balancer i still wait for answer.

let's take 2 or 3 experimented archers make them item balancer and let's speak about it ...
i have to finish some build test and propose some stuff to balance this ...

about tydeus we cant speak with someone who think logic than long bow have less range than a nomad bow ...

I still see just as many archers as ever, and they are still annoying. I didnt feel they needed a big nerf like this but i have dreamt for a long time of ammo nerfs.

just imagine you as archer

you need to have lot of str to deal damage and be accurate around 27 or 30 str
you also have to carry 20 kg for 2 quiver who give you 20 arrows in total if not loomed (1 arrow = 1 kg lel )
so you have low ath and move like a turtle but all other class are full agi ...
think also there is still those shit ghost arrows or the cav lag who let arrows pass through so you gonna waste tons of arrows but you aim well

that mean even ranged can hardly kill other ranged at long range coz not enough arrows, you gonna try 2 or 3 shoot then miss and change target
when this enemie archer is raping your team on his roof or broken tower like it happen for me today

so to be clear we cant kill cavs , we cant rly kill other ranged (only if close or middle range) what we gonna shoot now ?
yeah we just gonna focus more on infantrie...

before patch and after, problem still not fixed and inf will still cry
and also there is nothing anymore to counter cavs ...
so every map the team who get all cavs just have to fight half a team coz their enemies get spawnkill ...

also why u dont increase bolts weight ?
how many times i shoot an xbower then he run away with his 8/9/10 ath to reload then he disapear...
same for throwers

why xbowers and thrower can still kite and be fast as fuck ???
try to kill an agi thrower i bet you die in 2 sec

I find that post quite funny considering it comes from an item advisor

i'm item advisor not item balancer i'm just allowed to make new items or texture ...
btw the title should be item maker or item creator

[Jeade]

Ideologically, what do you think about light archers being mobile with limited ammo/power while heavy archers are around the same as now, maybe with a tiny bit more damage or ammo for everyone? Light archers will have trouble defending a position and go through shots quickly, but they'll be able to relocate and scavenge for ammo. Str archers will be good at defending a single spot with melee support.

"Ideologically," this is sound, but I'm not sure how it'd play out.
You're suggesting increase arrow count for everyone, but the higher agility archers (using Nomad Bows or Tatar Bows, I assume?) will run out quicker due to draw speed?
If that's the case, I'd say it's worth a shot.
The Nomad and Tatar bows would probably need a fairly respectable decrease in accuracy, though.

Basically, whenever a patch hits, everyone will adapt, and this latest patch has caused archers to spec primarily into high PD builds.
The highest damage builds are always going to win out, and we saw this about a year and a half ago when the Nomad Bow turned laser accurate.
Bad archers were able to hit everything and be remarkably annoying because of the accuracy (and partly missile speed, of course), and the good archers turned into utterly terrifying headshot machines.

Either way, I think it'd be good to see a veteran high PD archer and a veteran low PD archer take roles in item balancing, assuming they seem reasonable and honest.

[Blackbow]

....

Basically, whenever a patch hits, everyone will adapt, and this latest patch has caused archers to spec primarily into high PD builds.
The highest damage builds are always going to win out, and we saw this about a year and a half ago when the Nomad Bow turned laser accurate.
Bad archers were able to hit everything and be remarkably annoying because of the accuracy (and partly missile speed, of course), and the good archers turned into utterly terrifying headshot machines.

Either way, I think it'd be good to see a veteran high PD archer and a veteran low PD archer take roles in item balancing, assuming they seem reasonable and honest.

the thing who make me crazy is
when we had all hose str build archers they was using a bug who was making them more accurate

and before this patch or this bug pd never gave more accuracy !
accuracy always came with your wpf not with your pd
how can you balance archery when just one stat is giving you damage and accuracy ???
the only good point i see is now archer are slower and can be catch easier ...
you cant dodge cavs, everybody now have like 8 ath ... and archers have to carry this extra weight...
it's like impossible to survive during all round on some maps...

but since last patch this bug is now a real part of the game ...
i'm sry but what's utility to invest in wm and get high wpf ?
now wpf = speed rating only
pd = damage + accuracy