Arrows Complaint Wine thread

[Azuma]

Thank you for your test.


I've been always 18/21 until 18/24 at lvl33 with my archers, so 6pd was the maximum.

OF COURSE now im gonna become 27/18 + Longbow+3

Damn'd'em All.

[Tzar]

Jona don't give in to their tears  Be STRONK

Brilliant idea to nerf archery when everyone is going to get more than 65 hp and plate + shield. Come with more retarded ideas like having 10 bodkins into a quiver that weights 8kg, and 14 in a quiver of 10kg.

archery is a joke now  it was all ready nerfed and shitty

Yet you can't even do something simple like increase the head shot damage to make horn bow, rus bow and long bow kill in 1 head shot which is something to reward the skilled archers.

Can't wait to get run down by some tin can who absorbed all my arrows.

Yeah nice, Accuracy buff that is useless. Why would I want 2 stacks of arrows that weight 10 KG each....either way I don't care went lancer cawawee now.

Based on the balancer and event manager's comments on here its clear that this mod is trying to remove archery all together. I mean xbows haven't been touched and neither have 2handers. Which is all the devs seem to play. Just wait for bannerlord.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


huehuehuehue the irony.....

Anyways, when an archer can still be placed top score 4 maps in a row on a full server, I see no need to revert any current archer nerfs tbh....

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

Seriously, do NOT bring back archer ammo counts. With the 40 bodkins they could just stay put and never get attacked, at least now they have to stick in the fight to retrieve arrows.

[San]

So 24-21 / 27-18 archers seem to be the new meta? I still think ammo can increase by 2-3, still less than before though. I'm hesitant on any large jumps between patches if things do change, because archers have yet to acclimate to the best builds for the patch. Other balancers seem to be playing archer builds recently so they'll probably get more robust results than me (I usually play throwers).

[Keshian]

Jona - distance does affect damage by quite a lot, its one of the benefits of higher powerdraw is the damage drops slighly slower on longer shots.  Better to test with about 50 meters range. 

Also, your character has slightly below average hitpoints (61) based on the new levelling system (what are you 18-27, 18-30, either way pretty high agility build) - test with around 65-70.  otherwise consider that with 10 athletics you are probably running him down on NA1 before he can even finish a second shot on you and you are hitting him with a melee weapon.

He was using +3 highest tier bows with +3 bodkins so we are talking maxed out looms and maxed out equipment for shooting your below average health character.  Do a test with unloomed horn bow and unloomed non-bodkin arrows, which also received nerfs to damage (don't even need to bother with tatar bow and below they wont even hurt your character in any of those armors anymore).

Test those and you will understand why so many archers are upset that our class is doing somewhere between 2/3rds and half the damage of pre-patch against people wearing now heavier armor and having more ironflesh while being stuck with even less ammo and being more easily run down by people with incredibly high athletics.  Archery didn't need a damage nerf, not by a  long shot - 1 more powerdraw was not going to make the class unbalanced, but cutting damage dramatically across the board certainly annihilated the class.

Noticed you are also an item advisor so please take into consideration we are not asking to be OP, we are simply asking to do more damage than a guy with 3 powerstrike and an unloomed practice sword does and to make all bows viable like they were before the patch not forcing us all to use the highest tier bows and only fully loomed gear to do below-average damage compared to every other class.

[Jona]

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Cup1d]

Random idea

Make quivers 2 slot but put the bodkins at 25 shots and then go up from there.

Then make the short bow a 0 slot bow.

Frank, your idea just killed mine a\2h build with horn bow\yumi and real 2h weapon.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

So 24-21 / 27-18 archers seem to be the new meta? I still think ammo can increase by 2-3, still less than before though. I'm hesitant on any large jumps between patches if things do change, because archers have yet to acclimate to the best builds for the patch. Other balancers seem to be playing archer builds recently so they'll probably get more robust results than me (I usually play throwers).

Actually the current meta is use a long bow. That's about what it comes down to.

----

As for HA I've found it's viable to not put any points into WM at 24 agi with 3HA, I'll hit 4HA next lvl and it should improve a fair bit more. However stacking more str for PD is very hard. I'm lvl 33 and it looks likely that even at 35 the build will still be horribly underpowered. I'm going to rework my STF to test it out a little more.

The biggest problem isn't that you can't do damage as an archer full stop, it's that you have to have +3 long bow with +3 bodkins. If you don't have that, then you ain't got shit.

[Keshian]

Actually the current meta is use a long bow. That's about what it comes down to.

----

As for HA I've found it's viable to not put any points into WM at 24 agi with 3HA, I'll hit 4HA next lvl and it should improve a fair bit more. However stacking more str for PD is very hard. I'm lvl 33 and it looks likely that even at 35 the build will still be horribly underpowered. I'm going to rework my STF to test it out a little more.

The biggest problem isn't that you can't do damage as an archer full stop, it's that you have to have +3 long bow with +3 bodkins. If you don't have that, then you ain't got shit.

Yeah, I've noticed that the majority of tydeus' "testing" is him using MW longbow and MW bodkins with Croxetti.  Saw him do 1 map each with the other bows (all MW of course with MW bodkins), but in order to get high scores he reverted to most of his checking with the min-max setup, saw him in EU doing the same.  He actually did pretty good when he had that setup I think with high powerdraw, otherwise really inconsistent with a lot of maps doing like 1-5.  You shouldn't have to min-max your class to do decent and he's one of the better archers out there.  Feels terrible for new players who go archery without looms - they have no hope with the weakest class in the game (was weakest even before patch except for strat fights where organization, unlimited ammo, and siege equipment setups made huge difference), but he doesn't "test" that.

[CrazyCracka420]

I think the amount of arrows in a stack is fine personally.  10 bodkins unloomed (20 total) is fine to me.  I just didn't like that I finally +3'ed a bow and now it's the same damage as before I started looming it months ago :x

So now I'm thinking I'll have to use the exchange to go to Long Bow (but waiting in the hopes the damage nerf gets reverted).

Now that people are using IF more, it seems like nerfing archery damage was a bad idea.  I also don't think an increase in weight was necessary.  Kiting people while you hold your bow and 2 stacks of arrows seems pretty much useless.  *EDIT* It seemed pretty much useless before, so the weight increase seems unnecessary

Basically I'm curious what "meta" the devs are trying to push archers.  Do you want people to be pure archers who run whenever melee gets close?  Do you want them to be hybrids who can do slight damage if they switch to melee?

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

It's a good a point. I've got no idea what they are trying to herd us towards but it's a bit daft right now.

Once I get back to my computer I'm going to test a plate HA, I suspect that it will be perfectly accurate and immune to the irritation of other ranged, if I pair it with a meat horse I'll have made the most difficult to kill and useless class the game has ever seen.

[Cup1d]

Gimmy 0 slot quiver with 10-12 barbed arrows and reasonable weight, and I'll play my hybrid again. I'm not interested in 0slot bodkins or tatar quiver, but low tier arrows must have niche.

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

Why not add a new bunch of quivers that are two slot and hold slightly more than double the arrows?

This would give pure archers more ammo to play with while not giving the hybrids the same capabilities.

Big bag of Bodkins 25 arrows.

EDIT:

Or if possible fix the ammo system so you can pick which type and make some of the worse arrows 0 slot so you can use an arrow depending on your target.

[Johammeth]

I don't know anything about the code, but it seems like MnB/cRPG would have a hard time implementing two versions of the "same" ammo type (eg; big bag/small bag bodkins) in a sensible manner.

I'm assuming that each ammo type is its own unique object, and that "big_bag_bodkins" and "small_bag_bodkins" couldn't be stored in the same quiver (much in the same way that +0*ammunition* and +3*ammunition* are technically distinct).

[Azuma]

I don't know anything about the code, but it seems like MnB/cRPG would have a hard time implementing two versions of the "same" ammo type (eg; big bag/small bag bodkins) in a sensible manner.

I'm assuming that each ammo type is its own unique object, and that "big_bag_bodkins" and "small_bag_bodkins" couldn't be stored in the same quiver (much in the same way that +0*ammunition* and +3*ammunition* are technically distinct).

(no masterworkd yet... )