Arrows Complaint Wine thread

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

You've gone totally in the wrong direction. You should be moving archery away from need for +3 everything, and that's where it's at you NEED +3 everything to even add anything to your team. It's just a fucked class. You should level out the bonuses more. Make having loomed arrows less than absolutely crucial. I picked up a pile of MW bodkins and nearly wet myself at the amount of ammo.

Also an unintended consequence of what has been done is that the horn bow is the lowest bow that's of any use.

If you use the nomad bow you cap out at 6PD and are now mostly incapable of hurting anyone.

All I can do is be close fire support for melee to stun people when they are out numbered like some kind of spastic guardian angle.

Before the patch I shot someone 20 times without killing them... They had about 65 armour. Now I've only got 30 shots. I can only kill people with head shots so long as they don't have helmets and I can hit them at least twice.

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Both RD Prof and Bicep said they were on 1/3hp after my shooting spree.

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I loaded up bicep with 42 arrows.

Current build is 18/24.

The nomad bow is officially out of contention as a useful weapon.

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More people getting blasted with arrows to no effect.

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Bicep was on 1/3 after taking 42 arrows.

My build is 18/24.

Current gear is nomad bow with arrows.

This one speaks for itself.

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Please change the loom values and then boost damage and ammo to make it actually do something.

And just because people fucking hate being bothered by HA doesn't mean it should be removed from the game. It adds to the over all dynamic.

And if you are getting rid of it, just do it and then compensate the few HA players that even exist for getting rid of a class they enjoyed playing.

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Here are my arrow stats. HA arrow stats, I don't gave up on ground archers ages ago.

Pre patch I had to be fairly careful with my shots and would burn through my stack in about 3min and land about 10% of my shots on target. Post path I can burn through my stacks in 1.5 min if I'm not dead by the 4.30min mark I'm out of ammo.

The worst change for me was to the steppe horse. I was using it for the role play and now it's just so fucking tediously bad even with 10 riding, it's hostly probably the worst change to my particular build. Even with fuck all ammo at least it was fun riding around but now that's gone.

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Just got a desert horse and it's just as totally fucked as the steppe horse, how did you guys adjust horses to fuck them if I have a bow and am riding them? My mind is blown.

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Bicep went on to live a full and complete lify as a cleaning lady.

I score 8 head shots in the following 3 rounds and didn't get one kill.

18str 6PD, nomad bow and bodkins.

Two of the people had no helmets on and one had a leather cap. They didn't tell me how much hp I wasted.

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Also don't confuse fire rate with accurate hit rate. Amount of ammo * damage output doesn't not = total output. Even the best archers have a sub 50% accuracy.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Had to make a new reply it kept deleting what I was posting.

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1/3 hp after being shot up

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1/3 hp after taking 42 arrows.

The nomad bow is no longer viable, arrows are also no longer viable.

[Tzar]

Lots of Biased shit posting detected.... FLEEE

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

I'm 2h hero, cock guzzler. I have a HA alt and it went from being fun and not very useful to being totally useless and not fun at all.

[blackrose_Baron_Geoff]

I'm 2h hero, cock guzzler. I have a HA alt and it went from being fun and not very useful to being totally useless and not fun at all.

Bump    !

[sF_Guardian]

Hmm, those tears are a great compensation for thousands of arrows I had to suck the past four years

[Kaido]

I think i picked wrong time to go archer.
Let me tell you test results from eu3.MW rus bow + MW bodkins.Took 9 fucking arrows on chest to take down a heavy tier armor guy and i did that with 12PD(i know 10 max effective).I then tried it with 8PD and it was still the same 9arrows..Where is your fucking logic tell me.You supposed to give the archers to pick if they want to go pure archery which i tested with 12PD or archery+melee which i also tested with 8PD.Both the same?Quiver +3 has 14 arrows and it take 9 arrows to kill the new generation of massive tincans conquering the cRPG with this new patch?Is it too mainstream to think that now everyone will have more STR and more IF than before patch and PD is completely useless and not only that, you nerfed the bows/arrows dmg,put even more weight and for fuck sake decreased ammo and 10PD is max effective u can go too..

Balancers i wonder if you even test the shits that you make in realtime or you just 1+1=2-1=1+-1=0 on gamecode and you hope they will work out for you 

[blackrose_Baron_Geoff]

I think i picked wrong time to go archer.
Let me tell you test results from eu3.MW rus bow + MW bodkins.Took 9 fucking arrows on chest to take down a heavy tier armor guy and i did that with 12PD(i know 10 max effective).I then tried it with 8PD and it was still the same 9arrows..

ya they really messed it up.
I don't think its a question of balance there just getting rid of the class since there's a low population they want to run it on easy mode
if you get rid of the class completely or nerf it to the point of uselessness you don't have to nerf it in the future.     Less Work !

[Templar_Steevee]

Hell, steve is fine with it

I have 21/24 on 34 (no ps yet)

Archery after this become way harder than ever before.

Archers can still kill, but everyone can catch an archer up easily(even plated tin cans). To kill you need a lot more shots, but we have now way less arrows.



A newbie archer won't be able to get to the upper half of scorebord. 

If you want to keep amount of arows, dmg should be raised up (getting shot with ~0,715 gramm arrow should hurt like hell), otherwise  give more arrows.

Also i don't know why you decreased movement speed so much (sticking to arrows weight). Even before path there were not a possibility to kite, and now while playing on eu1 with my archer i feel like a turtle between rabbits.
Looting arrows is not a solution, because most of them stuck in shields, horses etc, and even if you kill an archer in middle of round he have no more than 5-10 arrows left.
Everyone moves faster than archers in light armor, and you should know that if you want to loot you need to run to place where arrows are.


Solution for that?
Give us 2-3 arrows more per quiver and decrease quiver weight to one before patch without touching dmg and have a look what gonna happen.


 

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

I think you guys tinkered with the wrong shit.

Lower accuracy and buff damage, a lot. And if for some reason HA just is something that is deemed unworthy of existing in the mod make all bows unusable on horse back and be done with it.

The changes to archery, I know 100% weren't meant to be a big fuck you to anyone with a bow based build but it really comes across that way.

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Frank's redundant fixs

Remove power increase from looms, change it to, accuracy, speed and missile speed buffs only.

Restore previous levels of ammo and change loom bonus to be +1 damage then add one shot for each following loom level.

Yes those changes make archery looms less valuable but hopefully it makes it easier to make the class playable and not op.

Lower the difficulty on all bows by 1, therefore making it possible to use the short bow with no PD at all. Follow that with a dmg buff. This will lower the max PD bonus for all bows across the board but also again, theoretically in my broken mind make it easy to mange archery and massage the whole thing.

Significantly decrease arrow weight. Many players are rocking 6+ ath post patch. I've got 7 on my main and in full plate I can run down most archers with ease. If they are fool enough to get close to the action I just bust through the lines and charge them and with my 79 body armour and 60 head they do pretty much nothing to me, I just barrel right through. If I'm immortal to their pewpew I at least shouldn't be able to catch them.

[Artemis13]

At level 36, playing archer from the start of CRPG, good solid archer build with melee secondary (because when you run out of arrows, which is really fast now, you kinda need it), I can get about 20 points on the board if I don't miss anything and manage get a kill or two (which is now completely based on whether or not someone has hit them with a melee weapon first). I really can't do much better than that - it's my new system-enforced cap. Typical score is about 6 because of bad damage.

I am trusting that this level of ineffectiveness was not the goal because it just makes no sense at all.

[Artemis13]

To answer San:

Typically, I use all my arrows about 3/4 of the way through. I might try some hail Mary's at the very beginning, but no more than 2 or so if the situation is very good for lucky shots (i.e. all the enemies are massed together, which is the traditional use of bows in warfare.) It's why I never went pure archer, because once the arrows are gone, you're done and I like to play to the end.

Now with the patch, arrows are done very early - for me, about 1/2 of the way through the round or earlier. So unless one puts a lot of points into melee, I suspect an archer's game is over very quickly into the match.

If the idea was that damage was to remain about the same, I can definitely and without any reservations say that is not at all what happened. The damage is slashed to at least half, possibly more.

Thus the result is, archer game ends quickly, and ineffectively.

[San]

Thanks for the responses. I think I underestimated the amount of increase in armor. We had to be careful for any possible extreme builds popping up that may dominate the server. I believe that the concept of increased weight won't change since it promotes unhealthy play, even though it punishes those who don't really intend to play that way. I do think that ammo levels should be at a comfortable level, though, but below a point where it's exploited (I have a problem with 3 stacks personally).

Overall, I'm seeing:
-Damage back: likely to be a steady increase vs. all at once if it passes.
-Ammo back: likely if damage potential for current builds are very lackluster.

From the perspective of an archer, what would be good ways to make 10-11ath kiting builds less attractive? Archers can only be slowed down so much before it hurts the average build too much and make only the extreme builds viable. I'm a fan of arrows being 2 slot with more arrows per quiver, but it has a number of downsides for hybrids/weapon choice. There's still a lot that's wait and see, but I think a small bump may be a decent first step as archers adapt to balanced builds and strength leans becoming more viable.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Thanks for the responses. I think I underestimated the amount of increase in armor. We had to be careful for any possible extreme builds popping up that may dominate the server. I believe that the concept of increased weight won't change since it promotes unhealthy play, even though it punishes those who don't really intend to play that way. I do think that ammo levels should be at a comfortable level, though, but below a point where it's exploited (I have a problem with 3 stacks personally).

Overall, I'm seeing:
-Damage back: likely to be a steady increase vs. all at once if it passes.
-Ammo back: likely if damage potential for current builds are very lackluster.

From the perspective of an archer, what would be good ways to make 10-11ath kiting builds less attractive? Archers can only be slowed down so much before it hurts the average build too much and make only the extreme builds viable. I'm a fan of arrows being 2 slot with more arrows per quiver, but it has a number of downsides for hybrids/weapon choice. There's still a lot that's wait and see, but I think a small bump may be a decent first step as archers adapt to balanced builds and strength leans becoming more viable.

I don't understand why an archer sacrificing pretty much everything to be able to comfortably dish out damage all round is a bad thing... Why shouldn't you be able to take enough ammo to keep providing support. What's the argument here? Only throws and xbows should have a useful ammo to power ratio? or that only melee should be able to participate for a full round, let alone play siege. Not to mention the cluster fuck that is ammo levels in strat and range power.

I suppose now that archery is fucked we can all take it to the UIF comfortably knowing there strongest asset is rooted.

But in an attempt to be constructive I believe that kiting is not going to be as big an issue. I think you guys were looking at this from a prepatch perspective and thinking about a bunch of lvl 36 archers vs a bunch of lvl 30 nubs. But people run like mofos now, and most people seem to be adding a bit of throwing in. The meta game is going to change, a lot.

LET IT RIDE MOTHER FUCKERS!

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Should this be moved to balance?

[Nordwolf]

Currently the most viable build i tried with an archer is 30 15, the accuracy is even better then pre-patch 18 21 and you at least do some damage. With 5 ath though you are completely useless in melee. Oh and btw guys with higher armour usually take at least 3 headshots to kill.

While at the same time, all other builds received a huge buff and and now every tin can is faster then you (even with a 18 24 build). Because it's an stf, 18 27 proved to be not a good build since you only have 2 PS.