Test on Shield and Polearms

[Vicious666]

With some good  player like Tor from searider and  Gtx from risen, we tested     pole stun-range and  shields

And even if i am a shielder, and Tor is a well know Pole user, and  Gtx is a 2hander. we all agreed

that Polestun is Op at moment,    not as stun itself but combined with long range+dmg and also good speed of pole.
We also tested   huscarl and steel shield (both   masterpiece)     and we all agreed that,     non crash weapons do too less dmg.        my steel shield received over 100 hit from tor with a bec de corbin and remained Perfect.     that is retarded.       and also is retarded that   Tor with a 2h axe can destroy my steel shield in 5-6 hit.     and a huscarl in 4.
We need a compromise.     the main issue here is  that      non crushing weapon do too less dmg, and crushing do too much.
imho my steel shield should be destroyed by 50 max hit of bec de corbin,     but also cant be destroyed by only 5 hit of a 2h axe but more like was pre-patch. 15-17 hit.,so     we are here for say,     and i hope many good player agree. that polestun crush weapons and  shield loom, need asap a rebalance.

i am not trolling so take serious this thread, and tor and gtx  and i hope other will confirm this.      what you wanna more? when top players talk AGAINST theyr own weapons?  Tor Pole, and me shielder? and one of top 2handers confirm.

thx

[Tor!]

I can confirm the tests we did and I support Vicious oppinion, something needs to be done. Pole stun is stupid, and the different damage shields take from different weapons is to big a difference. Although I forgot to mention Vicious, the axe is pretty fast, but then again I have a high AGI build.

[rustyspoon]

With some good  player like Tor from searider and  Gtx from risen, we tested     pole stun-range and  shields

And even if i am a shielder, and Tor is a well know Pole user, and  Gtx is a 2hander. we all agreed

that Polestun is Op at moment,    not as stun itself but combined with long range+dmg and also good speed of pole.
We also tested   huscarl and steel shield (both   masterpiece)     and we all agreed that,     non crash weapons do too less dmg.        my steel shield received over 100 hit from tor with a bec de corbin and remained Perfect.     that is retarded.       and also is retarded that   Tor with a 2h axe can destroy my steel shield in 5-6 hit.     and a huscarl in 4.

we need a compromise.     the main issue here is  that      non crushing weapon do too less dmg, and crushing do too much.
imho my steel shield should be destroyed by 50 max hit of bec de corbin,     but also cant be destroyed by only 5 hit of a 2h axe but more like was pre-patch. 15-17 hit.

so     we are here for say,     and i hope many good player agree. that polestun crush weapons and  shield loom, need asap a rebalance.

i am not trolling so take serious this thread, and tor and gtx  and i hope other will confirm this.      what you wanna more? when top players talk AGAINST theyr own weapons?  Tor Pole, and me shielder? and one of top 2handers confirm.

thx

I kind of agree with some of this. Pole stun on the really fast polearms is just plain stupid. However, what do you think of pole stun on the really heavy slow polearms? Regardless, it's too bad that polestun seems to be hardcoded.

I have a bit more to say on shields though. As someone who plays 1h & shield a lot I LIKE that axes can break them so quickly. It forces shield users to put away their shield and manual block. It helps with the misconception that all shield users are skill-less. Especially since a 1 hander without a shield needs to deal with weapon stun.

I sort of disagree about shields being too strong against regular weapons.

If you don't have an axe, you shouldn't be trying to break the shield anyways. You should be trying to kill the player. If they're turtling up, that's easily fixed by circling around them, a good solid kick or just getting a friend to help. On my 1 hander with my Heavy Round and Italian Sword, I kill Huscarl users all day long. I find it even easier with my two hander as I'm so much more mobile.

However, shields could use an adjustment. Perhaps by increasing the movement penalty of shields like the Huscarl or Steel shield? As it stands, there really isn't a penalty for using one aside from the cost.

[Bulzur]

I thought for a long time that shields  were anti-ranged weapon, but they're actually nearly unbreakable(high tier ones) by "normal" weapons at the moment.
So yes, you can bring the old footwork, feint, and spam is all you need, but that is utterly false. Since shielders usually have at least 15 agi, and 5 athletics, and with the "change" of athletics, you can't go all around easily even with 7 athletics.

It actually forces people who want to be effective as a melee against shield users, to use axes, wich is really a shame for a mod with so many great weapons. And then the poor shields will actually not last very long at all.

I agree that there's something to be done about that.

[justme]

if its reduced , crushing weapon will have no meaning in crpg... so i use combination of GLA and bec, carry them both on the field

[rustyspoon]

I thought for a long time that shields  were anti-ranged weapon, but they're actually nearly unbreakable(high tier ones) by "normal" weapons at the moment.
So yes, you can bring the old footwork, feint, and spam is all you need, but that is utterly false. Since shielders usually have at least 15 agi, and 5 athletics, and with the "change" of athletics, you can't go all around easily even with 7 athletics.

It actually forces people who want to be effective as a melee against shield users, to use axes, wich is really a shame for a mod with so many great weapons. And then the poor shields will actually not last very long at all.

I agree that there's something to be done about that.

The thing is though, the use of high tier shields has decreased dramatically. Previously, everyone and their mother had a Huscarl. Nowadays I'm seeing a lot more heaters and kite shields on the field and I gotta say, those break pretty quickly to regular weapons if you beat on them enough. I just don't see shield users as being some unholy unstoppable force. Most shield users are pretty easy to beat and I don't think their primary skill (defense) should be lessened. Especially since it can be solved so easily with an axe.

[Tristan]

I am sorry for this post, which might seem as trolling. Please do not regard it as such, but merely a wish to offer some constructive critisism.

Vicious, if in any way possible please do edit the formatting of your posts in a way that is native to this forum.
Your opinion might be right, it might be wrong, but reading it in the way it is currently formatted is a pain in the ass.

In order to truly value and judge your opinions and not my perceived image of you as a person through your formatting,
please do something about it!

Concerning the subject.
I have no clue!

[Vicious666]

I kind of agree with some of this. Pole stun on the really fast polearms is just plain stupid. However, what do you think of pole stun on the really heavy slow polearms? Regardless, it's too bad that polestun seems to be hardcoded.

I have a bit more to say on shields though. As someone who plays 1h & shield a lot I LIKE that axes can break them so quickly. It forces shield users to put away their shield and manual block. It helps with the misconception that all shield users are skill-less. Especially since a 1 hander without a shield needs to deal with weapon stun.

I sort of disagree about shields being too strong against regular weapons.

If you don't have an axe, you shouldn't be trying to break the shield anyways. You should be trying to kill the player. If they're turtling up, that's easily fixed by circling around them, a good solid kick or just getting a friend to help. On my 1 hander with my Heavy Round and Italian Sword, I kill Huscarl users all day long. I find it even easier with my two hander as I'm so much more mobile.

However, shields could use an adjustment. Perhaps by increasing the movement penalty of shields like the Huscarl or Steel shield? As it stands, there really isn't a penalty for using one aside from the cost.

making them slow can be a solution, but just enought for not allow them  chain-stun builds.    not much or they become useless, since theyr weapon are already big and quite easy to block.

the main issue come from  pole who have 95+ speed and loomed to same dmg of a good 2h sword + more range+ stun.

[rustyspoon]

making them slow can be a solution, but just enought for not allow them  chain-stun builds.    not much or they become useless, since theyr weapon are already big and quite easy to block.

the main issue come from  pole who have 95+ speed and loomed to same dmg of a good 2h sword + more range+ stun.

I totally agree with you on this. It's kind of ridiculous that you can be chain stunned by an agi build wielding a spear. However, I don't think it's as much as an issue with say a German Poleaxe since it's so damn slow and hilariously easy to block.

[Thovex]

I actually completely agree with this, I've been using a steel shield with a Long Espada for one generation and I always ran from weapons that are effective against shields, simply because it takes only a couple hits and your shield is gone.

[rustyspoon]

I actually completely agree with this, I've been using a steel shield with a Long Espada for one generation and I always ran from weapons that are effective against shields, simply because it takes only a couple hits and your shield is gone.

The thing is though, that's how it's meant to be. It's all about balancing. I also like that I have to put my shield away in those situations. It adds a little bit of excitement towards a class that's otherwise horrendously boring to play.

[Dezilagel]

I rock the regular poleaxe, but I too suggest remvoving the pole-stun alltogether (as I think just doing it on the fast polearms would be very much work for not that much gain).

About shields: I very much agree that regular wep dmg against shields should be increased, fighting against a good agi shielder it's just a matter of time before you lose. I however disagree that axe dmg vs. shields should be lowered, shields SHOULD fear axes.

[Vicious666]

seams that is hard-coded (the stun)

otherwise will be a good solution remove it ,  becouse like  crushtrhue on stupid fast and long weapon , is an op and skill-less related feature

[Kryser]

I have a problem with the "Bec" and the hafted weapons "chain" stunning me, if they get one sneaky hit on you during melee your done. The shields on the other hand seem ok. They got nerfed in the ninja patch and dont loom so great anymore.

The elite cav shield will break to a shield breaker in 3-4 hits, and 9-10 hits to a normal blade. Seems balanced
The Hvy round shield will break to a shield breaker in 4-5 hits, and 10-11 hits from a blade. seems balanced.
You guys have to remember that shield carriers have a nasty hit to their run speed while holding even 1 shield. Back off and use team work.

[Diomedes]

Stun is fine so long as one can't chain hit an opponent into the Earth with it.  As for the shield question I say keep things as they are.  I use a reinforced heater shield and I find it just about breaks every round.  Shielders need to learn that their shield is a resource to be used wisely and in moderation, not a brick wall that can steamroll opponents.