Fix the fucking polearm overhead already

[Teeth]

It's been broken for how long now? I think I had a discussion with Tydeus at some point in which his point was that polearm animation was not gonna be fixed, because it wasn't brokenly fast in his opinion. I strongly disagree and I hope a fix comes back on the agenda, some players are even starting to make a career out of only overheading. It is by far the fastest animation of the polearm set, if not of the entire game. I think it has been since this speed increase that the hit detection has been very bodged, so perhaps a revert to pre-fuck-up settings will fix that as well.

[Krex]

Please....

[Daunt_Flockula]

Before that we need to see 2d polearms get unfucked up I guess. They feature not only lightning fast overheads but also that much fast and impossible insta stabs. But then I remember how ALL stabs are fucked up and engage the "whatever" mode.

[Digglez]

i cant stay i even noticed this problem with a gen of swiss halberd recently.  Does it only apply to higher WPF levels or something?

[Teeth]

You don't see how the wind-up animation is as slow as any other weapon and then when it releases it speeds up significantly? Or are you talking about the hit detection issues, which are very noticable as well, at least on my end.

Before that we need to see 2d polearms get unfucked up I guess. They feature not only lightning fast overheads but also that much fast and impossible insta stabs. But then I remember how ALL stabs are fucked up and engage the "whatever" mode.

The concept of two-directional polearms is that the lack of sideswings justify them being very good at what they do, which is stabbing. The Warband engine allows you to stab up close with any stab, be it polearm, 1h and 2h. The combination of those two factors does make two-directional polearms the best weapons in my opinion. Stabbing up close has been made significantly more difficult though, and there has been many an occasion where I was a little rusty or tired where I GTX playing this weapon in favour of something less difficult. Fixing stabs to the point that these weapons are not incredibly OP in the hands of someone who knows how to use them is difficult without breaking the game in other ways. If it is any consolation, there aren't many who use them or are able to outperform other big hitter weapon types with them. The average player won't get shit done with these weapons, especially not if the overhead gets reverted to its non crazy speed state.

Besides, our active balancers are NA now, and in my experience NA isn't as good at lolwiggling these weapons as EU, at least not when I last checked. They always seemed convinced that these weapons are fine in threads regarding the issue.

[MURDERTRON]

To do list:
Nerf 1h stab
Buff polearm stab
Nerf polearm overhead

[San]

I've always felt they were too fast. It took months after the change for people to even start posting about it (instead people were mostly complaining about the 1h stab at that time).

(click to show/hide)

["release_overswing_staff", acf_overswing, amf_priority_attack|amf_use_weapon_speed|amf_play|amf_continue_to_next,
##   [0.6, "anim_human", combat+7110, combat+7140, blend_in_release],
##   [0.6, "attacks_staff_uptodown", 34, 64, arf_blend_in_0],
   # [0.6, "attacks_staff_uptodown", 26, 61, blend_in_release],
   [0.6, "attacks_staff_uptodown_updated", 26, 61, blend_in_release],   
 ],
 ["release_overswing_staff_continue", 0, amf_priority_continue|amf_use_weapon_speed|amf_play|amf_client_owner_prediction,
   # [0.3, "attacks_staff_uptodown", 61, 68, blend_in_continue],
   [0.3, "attacks_staff_uptodown_updated", 61, 68, blend_in_continue],   
 ],

 ["release_overswing_onehanded", acf_overswing|acf_enforce_rightside, amf_priority_attack|amf_use_weapon_speed|amf_play|amf_rider_rot_overswing|amf_continue_to_next,
   # [0.6, "anim_human", combat+9305, combat+9342, blend_in_release],
##   [0.6, "attacks_single_overswing", 16, 35, blend_in_release],
    [0.6, "attacks_single_overswing", 16, 37, blend_in_release],
 ],
 ["release_overswing_onehanded_continue", 0, amf_priority_continue|amf_use_weapon_speed|amf_play|amf_rider_rot_overswing|amf_client_owner_prediction,
    [0.2, "attacks_single_overswing", 37, 40, blend_in_continue],
   # [0.1, "anim_human", combat+9342, combat+9342, blend_in_continue],
 ],

 ["release_overswing_twohanded", acf_overswing, amf_priority_attack|amf_use_weapon_speed|amf_play|amf_continue_to_next,
##   [0.63, "anim_human", combat+6210, combat+6241, blend_in_release],
##   [0.63, "attacks_twohanded_overswing", 33, 60, blend_in_release],
    [0.61, "attacks_twohanded_overswing", 26, 55, blend_in_release],
   #[0.55, "attacks_twohanded_overswing", 26, 47, blend_in_release],   
 ],
 ["release_overswing_twohanded_continue", 0, amf_priority_continue|amf_use_weapon_speed|amf_play|amf_client_owner_prediction,
    [0.5, "attacks_twohanded_overswing", 55, 66, blend_in_continue],
   #[0.55, "attacks_twohanded_overswing", 47, 66, blend_in_continue],   
 ],

I'm not knowledgeable enough about animations to know whether increasing the duration of the animation will fix it or cause problems elsewhere, let alone the idea of changing the animation directly.

[Teeth]

Tydeus has stated that it was accidentally overbuffed so I presume he is aware of how to undo it.

[_Tak_]

What about the ghost -reach for 2H? Isn't it broken as well?

[AwesomeHail]

The long axe's - and her brothers' - upheads still haunt me every day, it almost is inpossible to block when one is facehugging you

[Kalp]

Yeah fix wpf patch too

[Lennu]

Also nerf the turn rate of 1h stabs

[AwesomeHail]

Also nerf the turn rate of 1h stabs

yesterday on eu 2, Teeth was rocking the spetum or somt, and he stabbed me twice before i could even attack/come near/block *was stunned
hax.

[Phew]

I use a 100 speed 1h w/170 wpf, and dozens of times I have released a left swing or overhead at the same time my opponent released a bec/long axe overhead, and I got hit first (and it wasn't even that close). Pole overhead is not only ridiculously fast, but the animation is very "jerky" and renders so much differently depending on ping and/or wpf+speed.

Tydeus himself ran around for months with an absurd agility build just overheading with a Swiss while s-keying, rarely even having to block anything but stabs. And he easily rolled 10:1 type KDRs+nonstop valor. Tydeus is a good player, but playing this build while abusing the animation that he broke clearly allowed him to "punch above his weight class". When 1h thrust was first over-buffed, I was keenly aware that abusing that mechanic allowed me to do crazy sh!t that I could never get away with before, and I don't even have the title "balancer"; did Tydeus not realize the same? 

[Wraist]

I use a 100 speed 1h w/170 wpf, and dozens of times I have released a left swing or overhead at the same time my opponent released a bec/long axe overhead, and I got hit first (and it wasn't even that close). Pole overhead is not only ridiculously fast, but the animation is very "jerky" and renders so much differently depending on ping and/or wpf+speed.

It depends on the twirling factor and where they are relative to you, just saying that you released first says nothing; I frequently left swing vs a right [and sometimes overhead]. I don't notice poles to be ridiculously fast except for a few cases where the person was also very fast, in which cases I just assume they're higher than level 31.