Author Topic: Ranged stun solution and use for IF  (Read 3068 times)

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Offline Rico

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2014, 02:56:44 pm »
+1
There is only a knockdown chance when you hit the head or the legs, and the ranged stun works only if you hit the legs or deal a ton of damage. Instead of aiming for the legs, you should aim for the head in both cases (blunt melee weapon or projectile) because the difficulty to land a leg hit is almost the same as landing a head hit, but head hits tend to be more deadly. Leg hits still sometimes happen by mistake, but they aren't really intended by anyone to put it straight.

Assuming that good head hits one hit kill the enemy in most of the cases, there is barely any room for knockdown and ranged stun at all. I think that both abilities are crucial for the weapon category; archers with low-tier bows have the primary purpose to counter other ranged players or lightly armored players of course, but being absolutely useless against heavily armored infantry is pretty pointless because nothing is THAT dedicated to only one purpose. Consider the poleaxes for instance, which have the primary purpose to slaughter lightly armored enemies and horse legs with their extremely high cut damage. Yet most of them have a secondary mode with blunt or pierce available. Increasing the likelihood of ranged stun would give a bit more flexibility to low-tier bow archery gameplay; I am not talking about bringing it back as it used to be some patches ago, but as Steeve suggested, a STR/IF dependency can make low-tier bow archery at least a bit more effective against heavily armored agibuilds.

Similarly with knockdown, I think there should be a 1/3 of the chance you get now for head hits and leg hits also applying for body hits. Otherwise, knockdown only has a practical effect when the enemy is a tank who survives a head hit with your Warhammer etc. or your character is so incredibly weak that head hits don't even kill lightly armored enemies. If possible, some STR/IF dependency would refine the knockdown system remarkably as well.

But right now, ranged stun and knockdown are so rare that they basically don't even exist. The aforementioned leg hits are the result of bad aim, and head hits should be lethal in the first place.
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Offline jtobiasm

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2014, 03:38:00 pm »
+1
wat? i get bounced back like i'm being dragged by chains attched to mammoths running madly in the opposite direction i'm going to

But you never die to headshots ;(((

Offline Johnnyfirs

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2014, 04:02:29 pm »
0
Wut? You do? Everytime I'm shot I'm only stunned like a nudge, not like a kick
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Offline Mr.K.

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2014, 04:12:37 pm »
0
Wut? You do? Everytime I'm shot I'm only stunned like a nudge, not like a kick

Even that's still annoying as hell. Running in full plate with 76 body armor doesn't protect me from getting stunned by a damn horse archer with a tatar bow. They deal 1% damage at the most but will slow me down. Imo this should be changed by tinkering a bit with the soak/reduce values. It's not like full plate blocking nomad/tatar/horn bow arrows would be overpowered, let alone unrealistic...

Would this iron flesh buff remove the small stun caused by the lower tier bows? If not, then I'd like to see a different approach by making heavy armors totally immune to low tier arrows. As they should be.

Offline Umbra

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2014, 04:40:37 pm »
0
No...this melee guy does see the issue.

And that means no1 cares?

Why do you think the stagger was nerfed in the 1st place. Almost everyone was crying about it for years, and people did care and still do
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Offline Khako

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2014, 05:27:24 pm »
0
Battle of Europe mod removed IF, turns out you dont miss it.

It's just not worth any skill points for what little it does. Considering I have to fight players that are lvl 33+ constantly, you can't waste any points.
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Offline Templar_Steevee

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2014, 09:25:57 pm »
0
It's just not worth any skill points for what little it does. Considering I have to fight players that are lvl 33+ constantly, you can't waste any points.
If you are an agi my old friend it's a waste, but if you are a str bulid it's quite ok :)
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Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2014, 09:47:14 pm »
0
Removing it isnt a solution. Imagine seeing ten peasants running at you getting shot to shit with arrows and never flinching.

Then they should get level and possibly armor value in the math

Could work, it shouldnt be an exponential growth based on level tho, high end level is op as is. Adding armor in could be cool, gives an advantage the more armor you got.

Tbh, I could see armor being buffed in ways like this (instead of "moar durability" buffs).
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Offline Blackbow

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2014, 09:56:09 pm »
0
While cleaning my room i got an idea :idea:

What about to make a formula for stun chance related to target's STR combined with IF and dmg recived and maybe total hp?

If you will take a IF an STR as modifiers you can do something like that:

Stun rezistance chance= [Hp-(Hp-dmg/Hp)]+[(STR+IF*1.5)/100] 

Where first square brackets is dmg recived and next one is modifier you have from combo of your str and if. Keeping that in 0.XX will be easy to use in othet things if needed, easy to change into %.

1.5 number is a number showing how much IF is worth looking for stun possibility

Only thing you will need to set are levels of stun you can set in table or in easy if... then formula :)

Sorry, i'm not a programmer, but i think this idea could be nice.

I'm not even a item ballancing advise club, but maybe you will have a look at my idea ;)

It could be funny to see in this game a full plate full str guys like butan that are running aroud and laughting because arrows are thickling him but not stunning (at least those from weaker bows) :twisted:

look like a nice idea
but does the pesant will not get shot all the time and the big strong heavy high level guy will never get shot ? or pretty never ?

since this stun nerf my worst enemie as archer is now those fast dancing 2h/pole heroes... i found that a bit ridiculous for an archer to get scared only by 2h/pole
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Offline Macbeth3

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2014, 10:30:46 pm »
0
They already nerfed stuns from ranged by large amount. No need to change it even more in my opinion.

Nowadays people mostly get that stun where they simply can't block for a second (like a melee-hit stun), so they can still move during it.
That bigger stun ususally only happends with leg-hits or sometimes on high-damage body shots if it goes above a certain threshold. Ofcourse having more armor makes sure that threshold is harder to reach.

Does the current system really need a change?

As for the Str/IF helping against stuns more, I have no opinion about that. It would "buff" Ironflesh, but I woudn't tie it to Str.
Nowadays there quite a few people who concider IF to be nothing more then a dump-stat. I do like a little IF on my character.
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Offline Byrdi

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2014, 10:35:03 pm »
0
If you are an agi my old friend it's a waste, but if you are a str bulid it's quite ok :)

Haha starting to see the problem :D

Steevee is afraid of agility based characters (read: agi my old friends), because they can actually kill archers now that archers can't kite and stagger as in the old days.

Sorry to be rude; but if we should buff ranged stagger then they should reintroduce pole stagger as well.
And no one wants that...

Offline Ikarus

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2014, 11:04:10 pm »
0
It´s a great idea but ask this yourself: do we really need it?

The balance we achieved so far is superb: almost all classes are called "OP" (and therefore balanced), if played well.
(except shielders. Nobody says that shielders are OP; I think I´m the only one who has a deep grudge against them...filthy, stinkin...)

I´m not really into repairing running systems (the idea is great though)
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Offline Templar_Steevee

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2014, 01:06:53 am »
0
Haha starting to see the problem :D

Steevee is afraid of agility based characters (read: agi my old friends), because they can actually kill archers now that archers can't kite and stagger as in the old days.

Sorry to be rude; but if we should buff ranged stagger then they should reintroduce pole stagger as well.
And no one wants that...

I don't wanna set stagger back, it was retarded. I also get accostumed to every single change thad devs makes to my class.

I'm not afraid of agi my old friends because i learned how to treat them an keep them on distance, it's normal that agi my old friends are "hunting" archers.

I'm doing quite good job pew-pewing ppl and my scores and places in rosters are showing that  :twisted:

I put in here an option to discuss about making IF more usefull.
Archer forever :D

Offline Algarn

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2014, 01:15:26 am »
0
I don't think archery's power should be lowered.

My melee alt got 21 str, no IF, and was wearing 65 60 body armor tonight. I died 5 times to ranged, crossbows included, after taking 5 arrows from longbow, or many melee hits and 4 arrows from a horn bow. I have no IF for fuck sake, armor does everything,therefore, buffing IF would be a terrible idea.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 01:26:58 am by Algarn »

Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Ranged stun solution and use for IF
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2014, 04:46:44 am »
-2
Battle of Europe mod removed IF, turns out you dont miss it.

This.  Always wondered why IF is even an option, would love to see it gone.