Attn: NA Siege Bros

[Jack1]

Also, can someone tell me what is the forum requirement to be able to + and - posts? There's lots of Siege players who never visit the forums that I'm sure want to give input, some of which are in KUTT.

it's something like 20 posts

[Phew]

it's something like 20 posts

I think there is a "spam" forum? So they can just spam crap in there to get to 20 posts.

Anyway, voted. Thanks SO MUCH for putting that thread together Jona. I'm sure it took a long time. And pre-emptive thanks to Fips for listening to us.

[Tanken]

Thanks guys. Also, great job on that effort Jona, and thanks for taking the time to do that. I'm actually tempted to go in and pick apart a few more siege maps that aren't in the rotation, and see if I can offer more Add suggestions.

I'm excited to see what these changes will do for NA's Siege population and its play-ability for everyone.

[Jona]

No problem guys, it wasn't all that difficult to do... I just prepared a text document that was 95% copy pasta, and the plan was just to copy n paste snips of that document into individual posts. I could have pumped out a single post in 5 seconds tops, but the stupid anti-spam time limit really screwed that plan up. 

And I must say, judging from the results so far... I'm gonna be missing some of those maps.    Some maps I thought might be maybe an even 50-50 split are completely one sided... interesting things be happening. I'm tempted to make a "going once, going twice" post on all the ones you guys are giving the boot that I personally think are acceptable, if for no other reason than variety.

[Voncrow]

No problem guys, it wasn't all that difficult to do... I just prepared a text document that was 95% copy pasta, and the plan was just to copy n paste snips of that document into individual posts. I could have pumped out a single post in 5 seconds tops, but the stupid anti-spam time limit really screwed that plan up. 

And I must say, judging from the results so far... I'm gonna be missing some of those maps.    Some maps I thought might be maybe an even 50-50 split are completely one sided... interesting things be happening. I'm tempted to make a "going once, going twice" post on all the ones you guys are giving the boot that I personally think are acceptable, if for no other reason than variety.

Are you sure about ______, if not, upvote. If so, downvote.

[Digglez]

No problem guys, it wasn't all that difficult to do... I just prepared a text document that was 95% copy pasta, and the plan was just to copy n paste snips of that document into individual posts. I could have pumped out a single post in 5 seconds tops, but the stupid anti-spam time limit really screwed that plan up. 

And I must say, judging from the results so far... I'm gonna be missing some of those maps.    Some maps I thought might be maybe an even 50-50 split are completely one sided... interesting things be happening. I'm tempted to make a "going once, going twice" post on all the ones you guys are giving the boot that I personally think are acceptable, if for no other reason than variety.

Well now that you are boss, i would encourage you to make SMALL regular rotation changes.  Like 1 controversial/debated map a week and see how if/how the feedback changes at all.

[Jona]

Well now that you are boss, i would encourage you to make SMALL regular rotation changes.  Like 1 controversial/debated map a week and see how if/how the feedback changes at all.

I don't know about boss, siege master, or whatever you want to call it. I need no title, nor do any of us to make a difference. If there is a map that you aren't happy with in a future rotation, just make a new thread and spread word of it, or post in either this thread or the other one where we voted. We are bound to have "conflict" maps where the community is split, those that just barely scrape by... these will no doubt come up in future discussions. Remember, if we remove all the bad maps now, then the "okay" maps will soon be the worst ones in the rotation, and people will soon grow to loathe those more than they should. It is a vicious cycle, and we will have to draw the line somewhere before we end up playing jamayyed on an endless loop.

EDIT: Make sure to check out the voting thread one more time, I posted 3 more maps that we can potentially add to the roster. I forgot to include some of the ones Tanken (or technically Para?) suggested.

[Phew]

Lol, based on the vote thread, the hate for Burg_Rabenstein burns hot within the hearts of the NA2 community. Not surprising; whenever it pops up in the rotation, it's just a wall of spam from people leaving. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I've ever seen the server survive 4+ rounds of that map.

[Jona]

Meanwhile the love for rochester burns just as brightly, apparently. I was always under the impression that defense has way too much going for it, so I would have thought that would be a 50-50 map, since it is nice and all, but kinda imbalanced... instead it is almost unanimous in favor of it staying. I personally would have voted to give it the boot, but I don't even get a vote. 

Also we have our first EU voter... get out, nerd(s)!

[Phew]

Meanwhile the love for rochester burns just as brightly, apparently. I was always under the impression that defense has way too much going for it, so I would have thought that would be a 50-50 map, since it is nice and all, but kinda imbalanced... instead it is almost unanimous in favor of it staying. I personally would have voted to give it the boot, but I don't even get a vote. 

With 40 people, offense is indeed screwed, but with ~20, it seems to be 50/50 unless D is super disciplined and sits at flag. Usually they get bored and go enjoy some team deathmatch in the courtyard then someone ninjas the flag. My only criterion for a good map is that it doesn't take long too get to the action (for either side), and Rochester generally qualifies. Compare that to Rabenstein where it can take an attacker like 2 minutes before they find someone to fight.

[Jona]

Idk... I've had unorganized defenders hold against an organized attacking team... all it really takes is one person to shout "Hey, let's just camp the flag and keep this multi going" in team chat and suddenly the defending side is unbeatable. The only time defense loses is when they all go full retard and fight on the walls or courtyard, and everyone neglects the flag. Even then, if there is only one person ninja-ing the flag, odds are someone will spawn right next to him since half the defensive spawns are right up by the flag. The problem is that other than the defenders simply holding the high ground advantage, the stairs up to the flag are each two flights... which means that at some point or another an attacker's back will be to either the enemy archers (on the rooftop) or the enemy infantry (at the top of the stairs). Not to mention that at least on the back staircase a defender can easily use a long pokey polearm to stab at peoples' backs. Shielders don't know which way to look when advancing up the staircase, everyone else is just flat out screwed... not a fun time. The map is nice and all, and it has been around a while, but I just never have a real fun time on that one.

In other news... I am kind of surprised that the lighthouse is as hated as it is... that was another one I thought might be closer to a 50-50 split. I guess it can be a somewhat long walk for attackers, but other than that it isn't too bad imo. The walk might be long to the flag, but you are bound to fight plenty of defenders before that since not many people camp the flag on that map. It's not by any means a favorite of mine, but for the sake of diversity I don't want to give every single map that is below 99% balanced/fun the boot. Idk... we still have some time to go (should we call the vote complete come the end of this week? Or until X number of total voters have voted?), so assuming there are enough active forums users/siege players, things can still change.

[Phew]

In other news... I am kind of surprised that the lighthouse is as hated as it is... that was another one I thought might be closer to a 50-50 split.

I downvoted Lighthouse solely because it's another one of those maps where defenders can't open their own damn door to the flag. There is also an exploit where attackers can parkour up the right wall and jump directly to the flag, and this happens often.

Your choices as a defender are either fight in the courtyard then rage while you helplessly watch flag get capped, or sit at the flag twiddling your thumbs.

If defenders could open that door and the exploit was fixed, it would be a good map. But alas, we are voting on maps "as-is", so it has got to go.

[Jona]

True, I forgot about the broken door*. As for the parkour method... it isn't THAT bad of an exploit in my opinion, now that it is well-known. Oftentimes there will be either defensive archers up above that side, or simply a defender who is just spawning as you try and parkour your way to victory. Not to mention that it is a time-consuming process, even when executed perfectly. You are completely vulnerable and highly visible for at least 15 seconds as you scramble up the side wall. Honestly I use this method as a defender more often than an attacker to get to the flag since it is more likely to be safer (hopefully there are more defenders around this area than attackers) than when attacking. This method helps to cut off an attacker you see going the back ladder. Ideally this map could use some work... the door on the back right side (looking from attacker's spawn) is nearly useless with the staircase right next to it providing a much quicker path. If this backdoor could be combined with a new entry point to the flag area, to replace the exploit with a legitimate pathway, then this map would be pretty good, I think. Unfortunately it isn't really worth discussing, since apparently we can't get custom versions of maps, even if we edit them ourselves or want to use an older version... oh well.


*Broken, or working as intended? You have to remember, back in the day to lock a door they would just bolt it shut with a wooden beam... fancy locking mechanisms with keys and such were far too expensive to be used absolutely everywhere. Not to mention most locks are relatively weak compared to a massive piece of timber. I kind of imagine that in order to get out of a gate you have to hold F to remove the bolt and then open the gate... who knows how you successfully close the door on your lonesome. It isn't exactly like you are just inserting a key, turning the knob, and then locking it back up as you leave. Well, that is my take on the situation, anyways. Nevertheless, not being able to get in from the outside still sucks for gameplay. This map should really just have a solid door instead at the flag, that way defense can open it from either side and they also aren't able to poke attackers through it... that is my main complaint with these 1-way gates.