New Upkeep system

[Admerius]

Current system from what I heard 4% chance every minute to pay roughly 7% of market value at end of round, proficences affect the chance for weaponry.

I will refer to 175k gear and that's=(Goth plate /w bev+h.gaunts+weimar+black greaves+plated charger+flamberge+arba+broad
shortsword+wakizashi)

Here's an idea for a new upkeep system(that's going to cause tremendous tk rage):



On Battle(for example EU1) you pay 2,5% of market value in upkeep if you die, and only if you die.
Why 2,5%? It's balanced around 7 x5 ticks and a 60% survival rate(meaning you roughly break even with 175k gear equipped
if you survive 60% of all rounds)

2,5% might be too low. Breaks even at 7 minutes of x5 with 70k gear and 0% survivabiliy(nub! l2p).
5% would break even for 7 minutes everlasting x5 with 60% survival rate and 87,5k gear value



On Siege(for example EU2) you pay 1% of market value EVERY round it also affects spawn timer:

Attacker: +1 second for every 5k of equipment
Defender: +3 seconds for every 10k equipped.

Why a flat 1%!? It's Siege, you respawn and can actually tactically divert enemies by suicidal sacrifices delaying
attackers or distracting defenders. That's why spawn timer is changed if you want to use expensive gear gear.

1% might be too low and spawn timer penalty too high. Breaks even for 50k gear at x2(avg 5 minute rounds).
2% would be be breaking even for 4 minute rounds with everlasting x5 with 40k gear.



Gear value(k gold)   Old max upkeep          New Upkeep(1%)   New Upkeep(2,5%)   Siege spawn timer(Atk/Def)
5                            350                            50                             125                           +1/+0
10                          700                            100                            250                          +2/+3
15                          1050                          150                            375                           +3/+3
20                          1400                          200                            500                           +4/+6
30                          2100                          300                            750                           +6/+9
40                          2800                          400                            1000                          +8/+12
50                          3500                          500                            1250                          +10/+15
60                          4200                          600                            1500                          +12/+18
70                          4900                          700                            1750                             +14/+21
100                        7000                          1000                           2500                          +20/+30
150                        10500                        1500                           3750                             +30/+45
175                        12250                        1750                           4375                          +35/+51

I might do more spreadsheet stuff about this if you(the community) likes this approach to upkeep but doesn't like the
current values in it.

Edit1: Table messed up format... added warning
Edit2: Fixed table removed warning

[Miwiw]

If you survive a round, you most likely get more amount of gold next round, so why shouldn't you pay upkeep as well then? You use plate and heavy and expensive gear, you surely got enough gold to pay upkeep for years. If you're broke you don't use expensive gear, and save up.

Current upkeep system is fine enough tho I also was of the opinion that upkeep was simply too low and not often enough.

[Tydeus]

How about something that would actually give good results, although no more likely to ever be done.

Remove Upkeep.
Remove Plate.
Lower Ranged Damage(after fixing accuracy).
Enjoy Balance.


No?

[Admerius]

Miwiw, I hear you...

TL;DR
That's the point, rich players can drain their coffers on expensive stuff, poor players need to back it up with "skill"(survivability).

Long version:
There's just a few things I like to point out:
WHY are you broke?

• Due to upkeep
• Bought something on market
• Equipping a new alt
• New player

1-3=Deal with it, more farming less whining
4=This makes cRPG a lot more unforgiving for new players on battle servers with this suggestion.

The point with forcing people to be more careful with their lives on battle server is to make it a lot more skirmish like, where survival is prioritized higher.

For new players: It rewards your personal skill improvement(not character xp/stats etc.). If you die fewer times it leads to that you can afford better gear. My intention with this suggestion is to get poor/new players to appreciate more expensive gear as an indicator of "skill"(survivability) instead of using it as a crutch* for skill.

*=Bring on the rage! Tbh, playing Tincan with less than 6ath demands some very good skill in forcing glances and reach+footwork awareness and the most important thing... you need to know when to commit to a fight because it's almost impossible to fall back unless your opponent(s) lets you.

For rich players: huh? More upkeep if I die? Ok I'll be more defensive and gank more.

@Tydeus
A bit extreme imo there needs to be something to draw in all fantasy players that wants plate armour.
Which tbh was one of the MINOR reasons I stayed around once I realized how slow(aka. how many hours of intense fighting) 30-31 was was going to take for my first retirement. I play a few rounds of tincan a month... I think that tincans are overrated.

and...

ranged still needs fixing(lower average dmg, increased variability of dmg output, and major damage decrease over range so that
mailhauberk can soak horn bow arrows sometimes.)
*This will most likely be an upcoming suggestion now that you mention it... including *gasp* spreadsheets

[San]

Why not just attack upkeep directly?

If your total gear cost > X amount (let's say 45k including loom price value increase), you have to pay a percentage of that every round.

[Admerius]

Good idea I'll check definitely check up on this and do some spreadsheets to see how it turns out.

I just need to know a few things:
I need to formula for value increase on loomed items.

I'll try to reverse algebra it from stuff on market unless someone replies here faster than that.

The tricky thing is making fully loomed tincan on plated charger playable without having extreme upkeep(still very high but not unplayable extreme). Seven minutes of x5 should cover a big chunk of it, minimum 20% IMO. Maybe tying it to ironflesh and level(Lvl 36 21/24 with maxed if = much lower upkeep than 16/24 lvl 30)

Then I'll even consider this crazy idea: no upkeep on x1!?
and see how that might affect the results.

[Turkhammer]

How about something that would actually give good results, although no more likely to ever be done.

Remove Upkeep.
Remove Plate.
Lower Ranged Damage(after fixing accuracy).
Enjoy Balance.


No?

No.  Balance is too sacred a cow.  Plate is part of medieval combat.  It's just that only a very few could afford it.  And that's what the devs and balancers are trying to simulate.  Plate sucks enough as it is due to not being historically effective.  Besides it looks great.  Don't remove.

[Turkhammer]

Why not just attack upkeep directly?

If your total gear cost > X amount (let's say 45k including loom price value increase), you have to pay a percentage of that every round.

It'd be nice if it were tied to how much the gear gets used.  If the gear were not used in combat why would it need repair?  But that would mean going away from the automatic xp ticks.  xp would have to be combat based again.