0.3.3.9.1

[jtobiasm]

you always have been useless mister #99 archer =p

hehehe!

I'm a lot better since then =D

[Rhaelys]

I'd consider -3 damage on stab and +3 on swings as a buff, a great one.

I worked with Tydeus to rebalance the polearms that received stat changes here. Tydeus would never have even looked at the poleaxes if I hadn't convinced him that they needed some attention.

[BlindGuy]

I worked with Tydeus to rebalance the polearms that received stat changes here. Tydeus would never have even looked at the poleaxes if I hadn't convinced him that they needed some attention.

You to blame for axes currently being redunk huh?

[Rhaelys]

You to blame for axes currently being redunk huh?

Sure. Tell me what you think is overpowered and I'll explain the reasoning behind it and give comparisons.

[BlindGuy]

Sure. Tell me what you think is overpowered and I'll explain the reasoning behind it and give comparisons.

lol

[Rhaelys]

Apparently Sniger is displeased with the polearm changes.

[Sniger]

just a pico bit

edit: actually im dying to know what you said to convince Tydeus   

[agile]

Can people with <=5 PD/high WM confirm if they have much worse accuracy than before?

Old PD penalty from 1-13 PD:
12.5000   25.7500   38.6250   50.9375   62.4063   72.6094   80.9141   86.3711   87.5566   82.3350   67.5024   38.2537         0

Current penalty now:
 0         0    4.5396   17.6785   30.5160   42.9466   54.8278   65.9676   76.1063   84.8934   91.8561   96.3558   97.5303

Most bows received an accuracy boost of 2, which is around 26 extra wpf from what I know. As long as you're not wearing too much armor, it confuses my how the wpf is getting shafted so much for some players. I think it'd be good to get back to a comfortable accuracy level without making any specific build too OP.

Asked about respecs, and it seems unlikely unless it's all or nothing.

@Sniger
TLs were too underpowered at 4 ammo. 46 dmg x 4 -> 35 damage x 6 offered bettter practical use. It'll also take another full set of +3 throwing daggers to match the full damage potential of HTAs and half of another stack for jarids.

15/27 198 wpf, noticeable inaccuracy.

[Rhaelys]

just a pico bit

edit: actually im dying to know what you said to convince Tydeus   

Here's the gist of how the conversation started:

Me: Tydeus why is the poleaxe so bad?
Tydeus: What do you mean?
Me: The poleaxe has 6 less cut than the long bardiche and costs twice as much in return for a strong thrust that can't outstab good lance cav
Tydeus: Uh huh...
Me: The poleaxe thrust can be outstabbed by a longsword, let alone a greatsword
Tydeus: Uh huh...
Me: And because of its medium length thrust reach, it's awkward to use in close range situations
Tydeus: Uh huh...
Me: So you end up with a weapon with a really good stab that can only use it situationally such as rearing 1H/2H cav and stabbing at medium range and praying you don't glance. It's the cRPG thrust version of No Man's Land in tennis terminology
Tydeus: Let me try this thing out.

*5 minutes later*

Tydeus: Wow the turn rate nerf really hit this weapon hard. Because WSE2 we can't do anything animation wise so let's rebalance the poleaxe around its axe head instead of a hard-to-use poke


That prompted rebalancing of the other two poleaxes, and some other polearms that compared in a similar way to those affected.

[San]

Thanks for being understanding, archers. Going to have to bug chadz to get a hotfix.

[Sniger]

the weapons is low tier polearms so why should it have high tier turn rate? or am i completely off grid now

i guess if all polearms were alike, balancing would be easier. then people would only pick weapons based on look and not the stats (OP/not OP)

[Rhaelys]

the weapons is low tier polearms so why should it have high tier turn rate? or am i completely off grid now

I'm afraid I don't follow

i guess if all polearms were alike, balancing would be easier. then people would only pick weapons based on look and not the stats (OP/not OP)

Polearms are fundamentally specialized weapons that are good at a certain battlefield function. Awlpokes? Good for anti-cav and melee support. Axes and bardiches? Good for breaking shields. LHBs/Glaives? Good for the polearm duelist/teamwounding.

The poleaxe-class weapon was supposed to be an all-around weapon that could address multiple battle functions, such as rearing horses, breaking shields, switching to alt modes against different types of armor and opponents. Unfortunately, their stats weren't balanced specifically because it was thought that they had "everything." The poleaxes are now internally balanced against each other and against polearms.

[Mr.K.]

Rhaelys, well now that you asked I got a few questions and suggestions you might want to think over and push:

1) Usually one speed and one cut damage have been seen as equal for all weapon classes and that's exactly how LWA and GLA were balanced. Now one of them was buffed for no apparent reason. Why?
2) Long Awlpike vs the new ones (Corseque etc): They are the same length and stats are perfectly balanced at +0. However at +3 for some reason Longlawlpike gets +2 swing and the others get +3, making them OP in comparison. Also the strength requirement for the new ones is lower.
3) Partisan migh need a buff, even though the +3 bonus is pretty good.
4) LHB stab should be cut looking at the model. It's the same shape as long voulge.

[San]

I can answer a few

2: looms are percentage-based. For example, estoc uses a loom setting that's +106% at +3. None of its damages are high enough to get +3 at masterwork. For 1hand swords, a value of 26 and above gives +3. It's annoying to work around it at times, since it makes small nerfs/buffs bigger if they're right at the threshold.
3: Woah, didn't even notice the +3 stats. It can probably live with +1 swing, but I think the current stats are also quite good.
4: Probably. Many stabs are kind of arbitrarily typed.

[Rhaelys]

Rhaelys, well now that you asked I got a few questions and suggestions you might want to think over and push:

1) Usually one speed and one cut damage have been seen as equal for all weapon classes and that's exactly how LWA and GLA were balanced. Now one of them was buffed for no apparent reason. Why?
2) Long Awlpike vs the new ones (Corseque etc): They are the same length and stats are perfectly balanced at +0. However at +3 for some reason Longlawlpike gets +2 swing and the others get +3, making them OP in comparison. Also the strength requirement for the new ones is lower.
3) Partisan migh need a buff, even though the +3 bonus is pretty good.
4) LHB stab should be cut looking at the model. It's the same shape as long voulge.

1) 1 speed and 1 damage may be an equal trade at low differences, but at higher speed difference, an equal damage difference isn't as easy to compare because the higher speed differences put the weapons in different speed classes. The Long War Axe is still in a class speed of its own, so a damage buff to the Great Long Axe doesn't mean the Long War Axe is affected balance wise.

2) Let me start by saying I'm not an item balancer. I only suggested polearms I could see as needing attention to Tydeus. Why some items have better heirloom bonuses than others is beyond me. You should address those concerns to an item balancer.

3) Maybe. I know I don't see too many partisans around. It's a really odd weapon because it can't fill one of its primary roles (rearing cav)

4) Long Voulge was made cut thrust *because* it gained 4D swings, not because of its model. Tydeus feared that a 175 length monstrosity that could be swung around and also rear horses would be too powerful. And most of the time, it's more effective (and satisfying) to swing at a horse's legs anyway.

EDIT: What San said.