Thx for unleashing the next ranged shitstorm

[Joseph Porta]

What stats should the horses have?

My arabian should have 55 maneuvre and 32 armor cause lol.

Multiply all maneuver values by 1.1, add 2 speed to all horses

On a more serious note, more maneuvre would be noice for horses that a specified in that 'catagory'.

Loomed horses are fast already, id like to keep that value - unloomed could get a buff.

[722_]

Can confirm. He actually managed to donkey-couch me during DonkeyRace preparation. Not even with a 13 riding STF but with a normal char.

6 riding

[Grumbs]

Cav is already strong

Either nerf ranged offensive abilities or their abilities in melee. 0 slot 1 handers are way too good. You can use a 2 hander with 1 stack of arrows even. 1 handers are too good without a shield. If you want to do melee you should play a melee character.

[Grumpy_Nic]

Really, just check EU1, its disgusting.

[San]

Horses used to be way better than they are today in speed and maneuver and it didn't cause much problems back then, beside being fun.

It shouldn't, since the timing is going to be similar once they actually approach a melee player. It'll mostly affect cav vs. cav, which is good. The problem is that current bump mechanics are quite frankly retarded, so currently I feel that acceleration into bump/couch speeds and bump slash/stab damages need to be tweaked, then change leg armor to 1/2 armor (maybe up to 2/3) so it scales properly with horses instead of a flat 0. I think that rolling was a great first step, and once some of the aforementioned changes go into effect, I feel that cav have room to have better speed and maneuver without negatively impacting balance too much.

What were the stats before? I believe that speed and riding were reduced by 2 during the patch that changed riding to be agi/3 instead of agi/6, but I assume that horses had native stats back even before that time? The riding requirement change is the reason why I thought increasing maneuver by 1.1x for instance would be too much.

[MURDERTRON]

High speed seems to negatively effect maneuver, so don't forget that.  Also fix it so jumping while getting bumped doesn't negate almost all bump damage.

Cav is already strong

Either nerf ranged offensive abilities or their abilities in melee. 0 slot 1 handers are way too good. You can use a 2 hander with 1 stack of arrows even. 1 handers are too good without a shield. If you want to do melee you should play a melee character.

1h Stab is still too strong (or fast) and you can do whatever spin you want with it because there's almost no spin restriction for 1h.

[Molly]

EU1 5 minutes ago...

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[Mr.K.]

Lot of this is due to clans like Mercenaries and Seljuks banner stacking archers. Those guys in turbans are prolly Seljuks? Imo that's lame* and should be dealt with by the autobalancer by splitting all ranged and and cav units 50/50 on both teams as suggested many times before. Before the patch we had a problem with Barabe stacking tons of heavy cav in one team.

Oh and the maps. Eff these maps where ranged can go on roofs or hills and be in total safety from anything but enemy ranged.

I would love to hear from devs and balancers like Tydeus how we are supposed to counter that "tactic". Flags spawn under that damn roof as well.

*=Let's edit this a bit. I don't mean to say that coordinated archer or cavalry squads are lame in any way, on the contrary, the game needs that teamwork like Seljuks for example seem to be doing. However when the only reason why that team is winning is not the teamwork, but the sheer amount of that specific class (like GK in the good old days), that's when it gets annoying.

[Kafein]

That map is really retarded by the way. A city is bad enough, but it even has accessible rooftops like that one.

[F i n]

Give cav a bonus in riding and a huge bonus for the horsearmor when they"re in formation (like in shieldwalls).

Call it formationbonus or what ever.

That would make them much stronger if they work together, charging the enemy (or archers), without buffing kiting HA.

Also this would be a much more logical way to limit the use of the heavy horses. For example, keep the riding skill req low but make them slower and give em less armor. When theyre used in formation they can use their full potential and get rewarded, if they're tanking solo, they're just another horse.

[korppis]

That map is really retarded by the way. A city is bad enough, but it even has accessible rooftops like that one.

On the contrary, city maps provide best cover from ranged. Where will you hide on a map with no buildings, but just one hill on each side and ranged having line of sight everywhere on the map?

[kono yaro!]

Horses used to be way better than they are today in speed and maneuver and it didn't cause much problems back then, beside being fun.

If it was so much fun then why do you think they were nerfed? I disagree with increasing horse maneuverability. They are already too agile and easy to control.

[Kafein]

On the contrary, city maps provide best cover from ranged. Where will you hide on a map with no buildings, but just one hill on each side and ranged having line of sight everywhere on the map?

Accessible rooftops are the worst because they provide invulnerability to everything except range.

Now, it's true city maps give cover, however they also lock cav, which is "supposed" to deal with ranged. The problem on most open maps is that they aren't flat. Even very smooth slopes utterly destroy cav, hence why most random plains are worse than cities for cav. However, the ideal map would be flat and open, because this forces the game to be centered on teamplay and more importantly, combined arms.

[Grumpy_Nic]

crpg has become a backup program for me, I just join battle with my thrower or 2h/pole and play for about 30 seconds or up to 1 minute. Until then, I got shot to shit and I have about 5 minuets to do something else until the next round starts. Gets xp/gold steadily. When I really feel I wanna play a long round I hide for 5 minutes until I show myself and then get shot to shit, or I ride around far far away from archer crowds/nests and survive for some time.
Nice patch, would update again.

[Kafein]

There are other game modes you know, let archers shoot each other if they enjoy that.

Pro tip : archers only enjoy taking potshots at defenseless infantry, not an actual challenge. If you leave they'll try to follow you.