Knightly Kite Shield

[Tydeus]

There is also a bug where after you release your shield block then immediately hit RMB again, you won't block again for a short period, even though it does the raise animation. This gets me killed more than anything else.

I'd say when I'm on the ground, that is what gets me killed the most too. Even though 100 shield skill and above is supposed to be the same speed as manual blocks (instantaneous) it gets me killed all the time.

That's not a bug, that's called blocking not being instant, and a 100 "speed" shield blocks significantly slower than a 100 speed weapon. This is another reason why shields don't provide such "clear" advantages as people seem to believe. If you're a skilled player, you have absolutely no reason to be using a shield in a 1v1, unless you're looking for a handicap.

[Grumbs]

That's not a bug, that's called blocking not being instant, and a 100 "speed" shield blocks significantly slower than a 100 speed weapon. This is another reason why shields don't provide such "clear" advantages as people seem to believe. If you're a skilled player, you have absolutely no reason to be using a shield in a 1v1, unless you're looking for a handicap.

I think theres a bit more to it. If you're the last man in a 1v1 then i'd put my money on the guy with a shield opposed to the guy with just a 1 hander assuming both players are just as good as each other and just as keen. You have weapon stun and the potential to make a mistake, which you can minimise with a shield. Another thing is the way feints work, they seem to be a lot less risky when you cancel an attack direction since every time you cancel you will block any attacks. You can take your time with a shield more too. Even the best players don't have 100% block, they make mistakes eventually. The longer you draw out a fight the more likely a shielder is to win I think

After saying that though I do prefer manual blocking. Possibly since I will play more aggressively

[Sparvico]

I wasn't talking about dueling CT, nor even fighting it in ideal situations (i.e. plenty of room to maneuver). I was speaking specifically of blocking one or two CT (from a none great maul) in a situation where you cannot back-peddle or otherwise get out of it. I am not the type of shielder that just bails on my team mates and runs the moment I see a CT weapon.

I guess what I really don't understand is the 5 difficulty level requirement. It only seems a tiny bit better than the 4 skill shields in one area. I mean the horseman's kite shield has very similar stats, to the point where the difference between it and the knightly kite shield doesn't seem to justify 3 extra levels of difficulty.

[San]

Looking at 40c 7PS 170wpf using +3 values against 5 shield (40% final damage reduction and assuming shield damage works like armor)

Hand Pavise:      418hp 28armor: ~35 damage per hit reduced to 21, 20 hits final (although barely under 20)
Knightly heater: 285hp 39 armor: ~27 damage per hit reduced to ~16, 18 hits final
Knightly kite:      323hp 29 armor: ~34 damage per hit reduced to ~20, 17 hits final (although just barely over 16)

Worst case may have a difference of 5-6 hits between knightly kite and hand pavise, but it will still remain somewhat close to the knightly heater overall.

Shields may not work 100% like armor, but the point I am trying to make is that looming to +3 gives a smaller % advantage with the +53hp and +4 armor. This makes the knightly kite both light and durable. Knightly heater would also be much more effective against lower damage attacks and ranged. Hand pavise is a little strong, but it is heavier.

It's a little on the weak side overall, but it pays more for its light weight. It could live with a few points more armor (or nerfing the elite cav shield)

[Phew]

That's not a bug, that's called blocking not being instant, and a 100 "speed" shield blocks significantly slower than a 100 speed weapon. .

I'm not talking about the miniscule delay every time you press RMB; I'm talking about the <1s delay after you drop a block during which a subsequent block isn't active. This delay seems to be the same whether it's a 60 speed shield or a 103 speed shield, and it's a very frustrating mechanic. It's only an issue with melee blocks; you can tap RMB nonstop while approaching an archer and still be OK, thanks to passive projectile blocks.

If you aren't currently holding a block, 100+ speed shields let you wait until almost the last millisecond before you have to press RMB. However, if you've been blocking then drop the block, you have a significant delay until you get to block again. The raising animation activates as normal, but you get hit anyway. It's the the thing that holds shielders back the most in duels (moreso than the poor lateral coverage against melee, the normal block delay, and the extra weight).

[San]

That is annoying, Phew. It feels like it's shield-only, but it's difficult for me to tell whether it's a factor for all types of blocking and the shield playstyle makes it more noticeable, or if it just doesn't affect manual blocking at all that way.

[Thryn]

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I'm not talking about the miniscule delay every time you press RMB; I'm talking about the <1s delay after you drop a block during which a subsequent block isn't active. This delay seems to be the same whether it's a 60 speed shield or a 103 speed shield, and it's a very frustrating mechanic. It's only an issue with melee blocks; you can tap RMB nonstop while approaching an archer and still be OK, thanks to passive projectile blocks.

If you aren't currently holding a block, 100+ speed shields let you wait until almost the last millisecond before you have to press RMB. However, if you've been blocking then drop the block, you have a significant delay until you get to block again. The raising animation activates as normal, but you get hit anyway. It's the the thing that holds shielders back the most in duels (moreso than the poor lateral coverage against melee, the normal block delay, and the extra weight).

I've killed quite a few shielders with simple attacks because this delay makes it seem like they are blocking a swing when in actuality they are not. It's a small window of opportunity that you can (somewhat) abuse, making shielders in that split second vulnerable. My best guess to counter this problem is just wait until you hear the sound of the attack hitting before releasing your block. It's not really that big of a problem, considering it will just raise the learning curve for new shielders a little bit.

[Phew]

I've killed quite a few shielders with simple attacks because this delay makes it seem like they are blocking a swing when in actuality they are not. It's a small window of opportunity that you can (somewhat) abuse, making shielders in that split second vulnerable. My best guess to counter this problem is just wait until you hear the sound of the attack hitting before releasing your block. It's not really that big of a problem, considering it will just raise the learning curve for new shielders a little bit.

It's easy to say "just wait for the shield block sound before you release block", but remember that holding RMB slows you down, making your more susceptible to kicks. Weapon blockers have the luxury of being able to raise/drop their blocks as frequently as they want without penalty, so they can have full mobility while their opponent is spamming feints at them. Shielders can't do anything during their opponent's attack phase but face directly at them holding RMB; it's just dull and predictable.

I'd love for this "double block delay" to be removed, but I'm sure its WSE2/only cmp can fix/etc.

It feels like it's shield-only, but it's difficult for me to tell whether it's a factor for all types of blocking and the shield playstyle makes it more noticeable, or if it just doesn't affect manual blocking at all that way.

We've all seen the pro blockers pull off blocks in two different directions within milliseconds of each other, so it doesn't appear to affect weapon blocks.

[Thryn]

It's easy to say "just wait for the shield block sound before you release block", but remember that holding RMB slows you down, making your more susceptible to kicks. Weapon blockers have the luxury of being able to raise/drop their blocks as frequently as they want without penalty, so they can have full mobility while their opponent is spamming feints at them. Shielders can't do anything during their opponent's attack phase but face directly at them holding RMB; it's just dull and predictable.

When I'm blocking, I try to strafe and backpedal. If I'm hit, I generally "ride the hit", and it does less damage to me. This also gets me out of kick range for the most part. Footwork is what you can use to dodge kicks. "I'm to slow to dodge kicks" won't work, because if you are maneuvering properly, you won't get hit. cRPG kicks themselves though are annoying with their magical force field range.

I think what you may be alluding to is that some of the odd mechanics (the shield delay) force you to change your style. I know that feels, brah. It sucks, but there isn't much we can do besides hope that the game just keeps changing for the better. Something I love is that every person has a different fighting style. If all shielders were forced to play ultra-conservatively, the game would become extremely redundant.

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Sorry if I sound condescending, I'm trying to be helpful! 

[CrazyCracka420]

That's not a bug, that's called blocking not being instant, and a 100 "speed" shield blocks significantly slower than a 100 speed weapon. This is another reason why shields don't provide such "clear" advantages as people seem to believe. If you're a skilled player, you have absolutely no reason to be using a shield in a 1v1, unless you're looking for a handicap.

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I can block "instantly" with my 100 speed shield (seems the same speed to raise a block as manual blocking).  But if I lower it, and then try to re-raise it, it doesn't block "instantly".  There is a slight delay that you don't see if you hadn't just dropped your block. 

I'm not saying it's a bug or complaining.  I know about it, but it still gets me.  I think there should probably be more of a delay in a shield being able to block an attack.  But then again, I think manual blocking should have some delay as well. 

I also agree with sparv, the knightly kite shield shouldn't be 5 shield skill.  It seems like a completely arbitrary change, and the only way to justify it, is to bump up all the 4 shield skill shields to 5 difficulty (which would be a dick move). 

[rustyspoon]

I say we raise the reqs for the Knightly Kite to 7 shield skill to stop the scrubs from using it. Only the manliest of men (like myself) can use it then.

It's a great shield, good protection for how light it is. It's a fast skirmisher's or cav shield. Does what it's supposed to do incredibly well.