Knightly Kite Shield

[Sparvico]

Could someone explain to me the logic of the stats on the Knightly Kite Shield?

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First off, it weighs less than most comparable shields, which means whenever you get stuck near a mauler you're going to have a bad day.

Second, it has one more body armor than the Hand Pavise Shield, but nearly 100 less hit points (yet its difficulty is greater).

Third, it is a bit taller than the hand pavise and knightly heater, but height matters very little to anyone with 5 shield skill. I can count on one hand the number of times someone has shot over or under my shield if I have 5 shield skill. Even with lower tier shields the bubble is substantial enough that no one really manages it, even when they are above you, as on a castle wall.

Now what is important, or should be important to any decent shielder, is the width stat, I cannot count the number of times some has either shot, or just plan swung around the side of my shield at an angle that just doesn't appear correct. The wider the shield the better, that is why for all of strat 4 the go to shield for most people was the heavy round shield, the 84 width was amazing in open field battles, and on castles.

The only redeeming stat of the Knightly Kite shield is that it is fast, but then it is not faster than the two counter-parts above.

So to recap, you get less body armor, hit points, weight, and worse overall usefulness of shield dimensions, and you have to spend an extra point in shield skill to get it?! It just doesn't make any sense.

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Now I know i'm not very good at crpg, but I am a pretty decent shielder, and about 24 of my 27 gens have been as a one handed shielder or a hoplite, so none of that "Well you must simply not know what you're talking about bullshit"

Edit: Oh and did I mention that the Heavy Kite Shield is taller (and only being 2 less in width), has essentially the same body armor, and 100 more hitpoints. It's only slower by 4 units, but you only have to put in 4 shield skill to get it!

If i'm getting a shield for wieght, I'm not getting the Knightly Kite Shield.
If i'm getting a shield for speed, I'm not getting the Knightly Kite Shield.
If i'm getting a shield for height, I'm not getting the Knightly Kite Shield.
If i'm getting a shield for body armor/hitpoint values, I'm not getting the Knightly Kite Shield.
If i'm getting a shield for any combination of those things I'm not getting a Knightly Kite Shield.
Frankly it seems no one with any sense will be getting a Knightly Kite Shield at all.

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If i'm getting a difficulty 5 shield, I am sure as hell not getting the knightly kite shield.

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If you're going to nerf a shield into oblivion, just remove it from the game entirely, at least that way all the poor Sons of Bitches that have it loomed can get there loom points refunded.

Post Edit Disclamer: I do not own, nor have I ever owned any level of loomed Knightly Kite Shield in any shape or form (to the best of my knowledge and memory).

[Grumbs]

The weight comments to me are kind of redundant. If someone has a maul it doesn't really matter what weight shield you have, if they are getting a crushthrough it will happen regardless. I always prefer lower weight with a shield since movement speed adds to your range, helps with avoiding attacks, increases damage etc. I don't know if it should require 5 shield skill though, or it could have a bit more armour

[Sparvico]

I actually find that people don't crush through my shield as often if it has a higher weight. Not so much with the great maul, but with the long maul and the things like the mallet. Might be down to other variables besides the shield weight though.

[Grumbs]

Nothing wrong with having a bit of variety though. If you want a light shield Knightly Kite Shield is currently the best stats/weight I believe. If you want a heavy one then there are also lots of pick from

When it comes to mauls I just hold the overhead a sec and nothing will stop the crushthrough, except other maulers with more strength

[Sparvico]

Elite Cavalry Shield
Type:Shield
Requirement:4 shield
Weight:4.5
Upkeep:266 gold
Speed:100
Width:64
Body armor:25
Hit points:250

Knightly Kite Shield
Type:Shield
Requirement:5 shield
Weight:3
Upkeep:385 gold
Speed:100
Width:46
Height:66
Body armor:25
Hit points:270

So then an entire level of difficulty is only worth 20 extra hit points and a little bit more maneuverability?

As for great mauls I totally agree with you, but mallets and the low tier maul just don't crush through my 5.5 weight shield that often. Maybe maulers in NA or just not good, or maybe they have less str, but idk man, I just don't see it on my end.

[Thryn]

The statistics discrepancies between the KKS and other shields is one of the bigger balancing issues at the moment, but devs should first:

1) Fix autobalancer
2) Fix/tweak gamemodes (like the 40 second MotF in ~10 man battle, maps, etc.)

After the aforementioned, I will gladly put my faith in the item balancers.

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Remember, whatever is screwed over by them can be QQ'd about and it will *maybe* get fixed in 6 months or so.

[Tydeus]

I would(and do) take the KKS over any other shield atm. If you think weight is insignificant, then you probably aren't the type of person who would have gained the most out of the KKS to begin with(talking about its older stats), since it's much more difficult to use than any of the large shields. Furthermore, if you're wanting weight to counter CT, you're fighting CT wrong and deserve to be crushed. To fight CT, you want to spam them any time you see an overhead. If they feint with a left/right to an overhead, you have to react fast enough to hit them(generally a left swing works), before the overhead lands. There's some other stuff you want to do against good CT players, but that comes after getting the basics of fighting CT down.

[Thryn]

I would(and do) take the KKS over any other shield atm. If you think weight is insignificant, then you probably aren't the type of person who would have gained the most out of the KKS to begin with(talking about its older stats), since it's much more difficult to use than any of the large shields. Furthermore, if you're wanting weight to counter CT, you're fighting CT wrong and deserve to be crushed. To fight CT, you want to spam them any time you see an overhead. If they feint with a left/right to an overhead, you have to react fast enough to hit them(generally a left swing works), before the overhead lands. There's some other stuff you want to do against good CT players, but that comes after getting the basics of fighting CT down.

generally when i fight ct, i awp mid when they cross and push long hard - ak headshot is extremely useful if you land it properly

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wat do u mean wrong game

[CrazyCracka420]

I always used the KHS, my bro the KKS.  I think the KHS is still much better even with 2 more weight.  Because the most important stat (of those 3 shields Sparv is comparing, is the body armor/ (should be called resistance) stat).  Even before it had a slight buff, I never had a projectile go through my shield.

I personally think the KKS should still be 4 shield skill.  I would be pretty pissed if the KHS went up to 5 shield skill.  But if the KKS should be 5 shield skill, then so should pretty much all the 4 shield skill shields.  Which I think would be a mistake (since a lot of us have final builds around 4 shield skill, and bumping our shields up to 5 difficulty has no significant improvement to the game other than just to fuck some people over). 

[Tydeus]

generally when i fight ct, i awp mid when they cross and push long hard - ak headshot is extremely useful if you land it properly

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wat do u mean wrong game

Generally, yeah. The real question is: do you aim between the doors, or shoot through the left as the guy on B tries to cross?

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Aim through the crack = walling piece of shit/just bad

[Phew]

Sparv, shield width only affects lateral coverage against projectiles. Every shield from bucklers up through Huscarl have the same crappy coverage against melee swings. You are correct that shield height is mostly useless, although it's important for cavalry, as a tall shield encompasses almost their entire horse in a giant forcefield.

I like all the options for lighter shields with less HP; if you have high shield skill, non-shieldbreakers never break your shield anyway, so you might as well trade some shield HP for mobility. No shield below the Steel Shield really helps against crushthrough, but weight is important re: block stun. A 3kg shield will even get stunned by held attacks from greatswords, and that sucks.

I don't think the devs/balancers should worry too much about shield stats; they all are good enough against non-shieldbreakers, and break really fast against shieldbreakers. All the issues with shields are with the skill itself (not much reason to spec above the shield's requirements) and the wonky nudge hitboxes. There is also a bug where after you release your shield block then immediately hit RMB again, you won't block again for a short period, even though it does the raise animation. This gets me killed more than anything else.

[Teeth]

First off, it weighs less than most comparable shields, which means whenever you get stuck near a mauler you're going to have a bad day.

So everytime you get near a mauler your 3 weight is a disadvantage, which is about 0,3% of the time you play. The other 99.7% you move faster because of this low weight, 3 weight is obviously an advantage.

[CrazyCracka420]

There is also a bug where after you release your shield block then immediately hit RMB again, you won't block again for a short period, even though it does the raise animation. This gets me killed more than anything else.

I'd say when I'm on the ground, that is what gets me killed the most too. Even though 100 shield skill and above is supposed to be the same speed as manual blocks (instantaneous) it gets me killed all the time. 

[Phew]

I'd say when I'm on the ground, that is what gets me killed the most too. Even though 100 shield skill and above is supposed to be the same speed as manual blocks (instantaneous) it gets me killed all the time.

I've noticed that it's pretty much instantaneous if you aren't currently blocking, but if you've been blocking then release the block but immediately block again, there is a <1s delay before your block is active again. Manual blocking doesn't have this limitation. This is the #1 thing that holds shielders back in duel-type situations; if they fall for a feint and drop their block, they can't recover.

Manual blockers can release their block to entice someone holding their attack to release it, but shielders just have to wait it out. People always rage at me on duel server for dueling with a shield, but I don't want to get used to all the luxuries that manual blockers enjoy in 1v1 (wider lateral coverage, no delay before they can block again after releasing block, etc). It's why I notice a lot of pro manual blockers are actually pretty crappy when they play their shielder alts.

[Dark_Blade]

heh was going to make this thread
yeah the weight seems to be the only advantage of this shield compared to the rest of shields from this type