Meanwhile in USA

[Makatozi MB]

Having seen and treated the aftermath of someone trying to disarm an individual with a knife there no way I would even attempt to do it. There is just too much that can go wrong. Would I have shot? Probably not but I'm not trained as LE and I wasn't there.

[Kalam]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/us/teenagers-death-a-reminder-of-gun-replicas-dangers.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/10/us-usa-explosion-florida-idUSBREA0912520140110

[Makatozi MB]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/us/teenagers-death-a-reminder-of-gun-replicas-dangers.html?pagewanted=all

another awesome example of why you should probably listen to the cops telling you to drop it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/us/teenagers-death-a-reminder-of-gun-replicas-dangers.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

not sure wtf was going on there.

[Tore]

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[Xant]

Do I at all approve of what the cops did here? Hell no.

Do I think they should lose their jobs, be investigated, have charges pressed, etc? Yes.

Do I think you are all judging them slightly too harshly? Yes.

You have to realize, no matter how much training someone goes through, and no matter what nationality someone is, all people have the same fundamental instincts: staying alive being the top priority. Also, most people (hopefully all of you reading this) would argue that protecting those you care about should be right up there with it. In this situation, the K9 unit was close to a "dangerous" (due to his previous history) person, and his squadmates felt obliged to cover him. They approached the entire situation poorly, and did many things wrong, in my opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that when you are put out in these kind of tense situations, where your target could have a butter knife, a real knife, a pistol, hell, maybe even a fully automatic assault weapon in his bag (however unlikely that may be) you are going to assume the worst. You want to be prepared for the worst, and cops/military to are trained to do so. Heck, it is simply common sense to do so.

Do I think that the cops should have flash banged and sent a dog at this guy? No. But I will stand by their decision to act in a manner of self defense after the guy disobeyed orders and drew knives on them. They had a co-worker, a friend, within striking distance of a presumably mentally ill guy armed with knives. Just because the cops had 3 guns v 1 guy with knives doesn't simply mean they are guaranteed to be safe. They guy (especially if mentally unstable) could very well lunge at one of them and severely injure him before being gunned down. A lot of you feel that 'the odds were against the guy, he didn't stand a chance and couldn't harm any of them.' And well, that's simply bullshit. All it takes is fists to injure someone. And this guy had two knives. Would a sane man charge 3 cops armed with fucking assault rifles with only knives? No. But from what we know, this guy most likely wasn't entirely sane. And don't go saying he only had butter knives... how could you tell? When the camera got up real close and gave you a good look at them? Even then I wouldn't pass them off as butter knives... you can't tell how sharp a knife is until you have handled it. Sure when up close you can get a general idea, but from over 3 meters away? Hell no. A knife is a knife, its a weapon.

Basically, screw these cops, they are trigger-happy assholes, but still, in the end their ultimate decision was one based on instinct, and I would support them in that. However I would first prosecute them for the 1000 other utterly disgusting and dumbass shit they pulled beforehand, which ultimately led to the final decision.

The "co-worker was in danger" is such bullshit, though. That's like sending in civilians to a hostage situation so you can then raid the building because "the civilians were in danger." The only reason anyone was in danger was because they went and put themselves in danger. How you deal with knife situations properly, the LE way, is to have lethal cover and then use your LTL ammo/OC/tazer. The guy they were dealing with was clearly not the most dexterous. And why were they all positioned downhill from him?

"Disobeying orders" is no reason whatsoever for cops to shoot. Not until you live in a police state.

And let's not forget that they weren't in any actual danger. If he had moved towards them? Sure. But he was moving away.

[Jona]

And let's not forget that they weren't in any actual danger. If he had moved towards them? Sure. But he was moving away.

"They weren't in any danger." Yeah, okay. Next time you see a guy pull out two knives right next to you, lets see you just nonchalantly walk on past, not giving it a second thought. The time it takes someone to close the gap between you two is less than a second. Now, was the guy moving towards them during the video? No. Could he, at any moment, have decided to charge? Yes. Hence, they were in danger once he brought out his knives. I already said, all the shit they pulled before that moment is pretty retarded, but the fact is, they were in danger once he pulled out weapons on them, well within lunging range.

[Xant]

"They weren't in any danger." Yeah, okay. Next time you see a guy pull out two knives right next to you, lets see you just nonchalantly walk on past, not giving it a second thought. The time it takes someone to close the gap between you two is less than a second. Now, was the guy moving towards them during the video? No. Could he, at any moment, have decided to charge? Yes. Hence, they were in danger once he brought out his knives. I already said, all the shit they pulled before that moment is pretty retarded, but the fact is, they were in danger once he pulled out weapons on them, well within lunging range.

Yep, why would I not be nonchalant if someone pulls out two knives and walks in the opposite direction? I might follow him if I thought he was going to attack someone randomly, but I certainly wouldn't shoot him in the back for being a threat to me. It'd have taken that guy far more than a second to close the distance between himself and the cops. The terrain was uneven and the knife dude was fat and clearly not in good control of his body.

[Prpavi]

Yes, lets just get rid of everything in the Bill of Rights, it all sucks anyway.

you mean this: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

sounds to me like wild west law if anything, maybe the Bill of Rights could use some touching up after 150 years

reading further, the law seems to derive from English Bill of Rights of 1689 (!) which states: "That the Subjects which are Protestants may have Arms for their Defence suitable to their Conditions and as allowed by Law."

looks like religion shows it's ugly head again in the most unexpected place 

[Xant]

The English Bill of Rights is very different. Keywords being "protestants" and "as allowed by Law."

In the U.S one it flat out says "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Of course, it is being infringed in most states even in America.

[Butan]

I thought you were a brutally efficient logic machine xant, I am le disapoint 

[SixThumbs]

What if they were dealing with this!?

[Butan]

American ninja: the last chapter.

[Xant]

I thought you were a brutally efficient logic machine xant, I am le disapoint 

Show me where my logic has failed.

[Prpavi]

I completely agree, only dumb cowboy rednecks wouldn't want all the guns in the hands of criminals and the government.

Yes because they are all after your head and it's completely necesarry for every human being on earth to carry a gun.

Cuz self-preservation yo!

[Xant]

Well, it is pretty telling that pretty much all the mass shooting in U.S have happened in so-called Gun Free Zones...