Meanwhile in USA

[Molly]

I am still baffled that supposedly trained officers can't handle a guy with tiny knives. Granted, it might not have been visually obvious to them how big those knives were but god damn it, those were professionals! Several of them! With a fucking dog! Versus a single fat man!

Who could they NOT resolve this w/o killing the guy?
Honestly, this happening in Germany and the officers involved would easily do time in prison for manslaughter.

Get a damn riot shield, a stab vest, a helmet, those lead-filled gloves and a baton and beat the shit out of him but shooting him? Just lol.
I had to deal with way more threatening situations when I used to work the door. Maybe less time on the shooting range and more training in hand2hand combat might have helped. Otherwise, I can't stop thinking that you're living in a freaking war zone over there.

[wayyyyyne]

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Lacks ":DDDDD"

[Jeade]

Why do you need to read about how far the K9 officer was from him? You can see it on the video. And they used bean bags after he was shot with lethal rounds, as is shown... on the video.

Because the distance between the two is a crucial legal factor.

We all watched the video, but the point is, the moment when the LTL shots were supposedly fired, the officers handling those weapons were off camera, so we can't say for sure if it happened or not.
I do believe at 0:54 in the video you can hear the LTL shotgun cycle once (that's the taser).

My understanding and best guess is that the flash and taser failed to have any effect on Boyd, so the K9 officer attempted to pull back his dog.
This put him in very close range of Boyd, who then pulled the two knives on the unarmed K9 officer kneeling on the ground.
There was hesitation from the officer immediately next to the K9 officer who fired first and he was followed with shots by the officer wearing the camera.
That's my best educated guess, however shitty the APD has been in recent years.

I can't stop thinking that you're living in a freaking war zone over there.

heh. Nah, it's pretty relaxed here.
From experience, most police officers are good guys who just want to help the community.

[Utrakil]

Little reminder to the germans ( Paul, Molly) which think this would not happen in their contry:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11csir_vollig-unverhaltnismabiger-einsatz-der-berliner-polizei-am-28-juni-2013-am-berliner-neptunbrunnen_news

the guy died and charges on the officer were dropped (selfdefence).https://www.berlin.de/aktuelles/berlin/3167542-958092-tod-im-neptunbrunnen-ermittlungen-gegen-.html

[Butan]

It's only because they set off the grenade did he freak out and pull a knife.

So, if I'm "attacked" by cops I have the right to pull a weapon and kill them? Fuck logic. Or was he only trying to intimidate the cops? Once again, fuck logic.
You dont intimidate nor threaten armed police and think you can walk away with it. You're only going to get severely injured or killed if you do that.

"But he was weak old man who wanted to do no harm", pls. You dont need to be a master assassin in his prime to kill someone with a knife. If the cops werent wearing full chainmail over anti-stab vest/leggings and bulletproof mask, they were very much "in danger" even if they were 5 young guys against 1 old man. Or do you think it would have been "okay" if only one of the cops got killed body slamming the dude? This isnt a war, nor the WWE, there is no acceptable loss of good guys, those assault men are supposed to protect their own life at all cost, deemed the scenario allow them to use live ammo.

I dont know if you once tried to put a man down and restrain him, but if he hasnt been neutralized before, there is a high chance you're at least going to get an elbow to the face, and at worse a knife in the ribs, even if you pile up the 5 guys on him in quick succession.


Maybe they should have waited a tiny more for peaceful compliance (he accepted to leave, but to where? I remind you, they were here to arrest him at this point, not to make him stop camping), but I dont think 10 more seconds would have done the trick if they were negotiating with him for hours and the problem was still there.

Ok, it looks bad on the paper, but you gotta be more critical and not just stop at "he had knives, they had guns, it was unfair!"   even if the guy only had a box-cutter in his hand, and was threatening people with it, and was unstoppable by anything else than lethal force, I wouldnt mind if they used a tactical nuke launched from space. Police isnt here to provide a "challenge" to dangerous persons.



Similar stuff going on in EU, it is managed differently, we are just less prone to use firearms and more to let guys flee the scene, which isnt a superior way of doing things IMO. Maybe there is a middle point to reach between US/EU modus operandi. Basically sending the most appropriate units against the proportionally equipped suspects; because its obvious that the homeless dude was fairly overwhelmed by both numbers and gear: it doesnt help when the public see this... But then, if you send police to a scene where they dont have the tools to protect themselves, they die. Sometimes its better to send the GIGN against a poor dude, than send the city police, if you dont know whats up.



Edit:

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I will add that like AntiBlitz, I'm merely adding my wisdom to the thread, so dont hate the messenger too much 

[Leshma]

No matter how hard you try to justify it, situation shown in video remind me of this (also mentally ill person got killed by retards):

If policeman can't take down the knife hobo alone without guns, then he's not worthy of his call or in other words incompetent. Maybe policemen watched Hobo with a shotgun shortly before this incident started...

Also if he was a known threat to society why he isn't behind bars or at least in mental institution? Something in not right in Albuquerque.

[Teeth]

Our entire country of 313.9 million people is saturated with fire-arms and if we were to be invaded by a foreign aggressor think of how well that would go.

This is just hilarious.

[Butan]

Watched that video before, dont worry I'm not going to say something in this was justified at all. I wish the black attacker and the white master to get shot to death camping illegally wielding plastic knives in their hands.

The difference between the two, is obviously that the "mentally ill with a police record dude" is in a case armed, in the other, unarmed. Also challenging a martial artist to a friendly duel is entirely different than challenging armed police.

If you had switched the two dudes (armed guy in the dojo, unarmed guy camping) I would agree that shooting the unarmed camping dude would be nuts.
And if the old homeless guy had intruded in a dojo with a knife in each hand threatening to kill everyone, I wouldnt mind if a civilian had stomped his head to death (still to be put in probation seeing the apparent maniacal bloodlust and lack of self restraint).

Also if he was a known threat to society why he isn't behind bars or at least in mental institution? Something in not right in Albuquerque.

Putting mentally disturbed person behind bars or mental institution without proper legal route would be unjustified. Yes, if he had been put behind bars or in a mental institution, instead of dying stupidly, it would have been better, but the reality is different.

[Kafein]

This is just hilarious.

I chose to ignore it. But really...

[Havoco]

This forum is getting boring. Where's panos ffs?

[Xant]

I am still baffled that supposedly trained officers can't handle a guy with tiny knives. Granted, it might not have been visually obvious to them how big those knives were but god damn it, those were professionals! Several of them! With a fucking dog! Versus a single fat man!

The worst part of this absurdity is that these people were the fucking SWAT team. They're the supposed bad asses who the normal cops call when they can't handle shit. A little girl would do their job better. Not only are they cowards, they are incompetent cowards, as is evident from the helmet-camera guy firing and their subsequent shouting and setting-the-dog-on-the-guy etc etc.

[Tovi]

[Prpavi]

How ever NA members of the community try to justify this, the gun culture in America today is just terrifying and worrying.

Whats even worse I find it disturbing people still try to defend it and defend their "right to protect themselves" with firearms.

[Jona]

Do I at all approve of what the cops did here? Hell no.

Do I think they should lose their jobs, be investigated, have charges pressed, etc? Yes.

Do I think you are all judging them slightly too harshly? Yes.

You have to realize, no matter how much training someone goes through, and no matter what nationality someone is, all people have the same fundamental instincts: staying alive being the top priority. Also, most people (hopefully all of you reading this) would argue that protecting those you care about should be right up there with it. In this situation, the K9 unit was close to a "dangerous" (due to his previous history) person, and his squadmates felt obliged to cover him. They approached the entire situation poorly, and did many things wrong, in my opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that when you are put out in these kind of tense situations, where your target could have a butter knife, a real knife, a pistol, hell, maybe even a fully automatic assault weapon in his bag (however unlikely that may be) you are going to assume the worst. You want to be prepared for the worst, and cops/military to are trained to do so. Heck, it is simply common sense to do so.

Do I think that the cops should have flash banged and sent a dog at this guy? No. But I will stand by their decision to act in a manner of self defense after the guy disobeyed orders and drew knives on them. They had a co-worker, a friend, within striking distance of a presumably mentally ill guy armed with knives. Just because the cops had 3 guns v 1 guy with knives doesn't simply mean they are guaranteed to be safe. They guy (especially if mentally unstable) could very well lunge at one of them and severely injure him before being gunned down. A lot of you feel that 'the odds were against the guy, he didn't stand a chance and couldn't harm any of them.' And well, that's simply bullshit. All it takes is fists to injure someone. And this guy had two knives. Would a sane man charge 3 cops armed with fucking assault rifles with only knives? No. But from what we know, this guy most likely wasn't entirely sane. And don't go saying he only had butter knives... how could you tell? When the camera got up real close and gave you a good look at them? Even then I wouldn't pass them off as butter knives... you can't tell how sharp a knife is until you have handled it. Sure when up close you can get a general idea, but from over 3 meters away? Hell no. A knife is a knife, its a weapon.

Basically, screw these cops, they are trigger-happy assholes, but still, in the end their ultimate decision was one based on instinct, and I would support them in that. However I would first prosecute them for the 1000 other utterly disgusting and dumbass shit they pulled beforehand, which ultimately led to the final decision.