0.3.3.5

[Soulreaver]

give me respec also, nuw i cant wear my shield !
sounds fair, isn't?

i believe in you...
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[kinngrimm]

Is it only me who sees all the time now shieldbreakers?
Was there ever a reduction on the effectivness on the shieldbreaking ability?

The website does not yet represent the decrease of shieldskill from 8% to 5%.
Why was it nearly halfed? With so few % already 1% reduction would have done the trick to get rid of "shieldskill 13 unbreakable".

My Shieldskill 10 feels like 6-7 three years ago. With shieldbreaking ... crushthrough, reduction of force field a lot earlier, the need to sepreately need to spend skill points, i tend now to believe that high shieldskill above 4 to 6 is absolutly pointless.

@San
first you argumented that the shields would be made better, but the changes often had been reversed already, like the reduction of weight, which turned out to be bad because of crushthrough ^^.
Then there was a discussion of new game mechanics included which would even out the heavy nerf, still nothing happened. You could think that till these miracle changes would be ready to be implemented, that till then you at least get us back some of the %. Please increase the shield skill % to 7%, that way you still dont have unbreakable shields(which was the basic point of the reduction).

I would rather have now not to invest skill points at all and make a combined agi/str requirement, if there would not be something done about the shieldskill ability.

[wanteds]

Is it only me who sees all the time now shieldbreakers?
Was there ever a reduction on the effectivness on the shieldbreaking ability?

The website does not yet represent the decrease of shieldskill from 8% to 5%.
Why was it nearly halfed? With so few % already 1% reduction would have done the trick to get rid of "shieldskill 13 unbreakable".

My Shieldskill 10 feels like 6-7 three years ago. With shieldbreaking ... crushthrough, reduction of force field a lot earlier, the need to sepreately need to spend skill points, i tend now to believe that high shieldskill above 4 to 6 is absolutly pointless.

@San
first you argumented that the shields would be made better, but the changes often had been reversed already, like the reduction of weight, which turned out to be bad because of crushthrough ^^.
Then there was a discussion of new game mechanics included which would even out the heavy nerf, still nothing happened. You could think that till these miracle changes would be ready to be implemented, that till then you at least get us back some of the %. Please increase the shield skill % to 7%, that way you still dont have unbreakable shields(which was the basic point of the reduction).

I would rather have now not to invest skill points at all and make a combined agi/str requirement, if there would not be something done about the shieldskill ability.

I don't even see why they nerfed shielders again. Its the weakest of all classes. And reduction of shield skill so no one gets unbreakable? well I haven't seen anyone with that much shield skill in my 3 years of crpg, stupid excuse to nerf shielders even farther imo...

[Tydeus]

The website does not yet represent the decrease of shieldskill from 8% to 5%.
Please increase the shield skill % to 7%, that way you still dont have unbreakable shields(which was the basic point of the reduction).

The current durability formula is 10% base plus 6% per shield skill level. Changing to 7% per level would make things worse for most shielders. The only people who have the right to complain about this change, imo, are people who had a knightly kite shield. That's not to say the shields were nerfed, because they weren't; all of the shields are still good, including the KKS. As far as crushthrough goes, if you're relying on your shield for anything, then you're fighting CT wrong.

[MURDERTRON]

You can still 360 stab anything with the fastest stab in the game for ridiculous damage, but now you actually get punished for trying it on a mauler.  That seems fair to me and I'm playing a shielder.

[Butan]

Doesnt shieldbreaking weapons nearly always 2-5 shotted any shields anyway (except the invincible ones before the patch)? The nerf of durability seems only to really affect the "not shieldbreaking" weapons, that can now hope to break the shields in less than 30 hits.

[Gurnisson]

I don't even see why they nerfed shielders again. Its the weakest of all classes.

No, rather the opposite

[the real god emperor]

arbalest nerf, finally

[kinngrimm]

The current durability formula is 10% base plus 6% per shield skill level. Changing to 7% per level would make things worse for most shielders. The only people who have the right to complain about this change, imo, are people who had a knightly kite shield. That's not to say the shields were nerfed, because they weren't; all of the shields are still good, including the KKS. As far as crushthrough goes, if you're relying on your shield for anything, then you're fighting CT wrong.

What i was told, that it would be base and then +5% per skill level.
How on spagethi monsters earth would an increase of % per shield skill, make things worse for shielders?

@Butan
strangely enough it depends on more then just the weapon, but yes depending on build, movementspeed, sweetspot, weapon, loom level you can 2 to 5 shot with a shield breaker any shield. Due to my High Shieldskill people with high str and all optomized as mentioend above needed often at least 4 hits, now 3 hits to kill my shield with 10 fucking shieldskill. Now a MA Elite Cav is some faster then other shields, has not the best of cover but was rather durable in combiantion with high shield skill ... now its crap as many otehrs in that area too.To compensate those changes i would need to go for a Knightly heater sheild, with even worse coverage ... i guess my dream of going back onto the battle servers more regularly instead of fucking siege all the time i can forget about ^^

Although i was not refering to a particular shield, i got 5 different MW shields, from high HP low Res to high Res low HP shields. The low Res Shields have been struck harder then the high Res Shields with the changes 2 to 3 patches ago in terms of shieldskill. Therefor the lower Res Shields should have gotten a higher HP increase to compensate for the decrease by 3 % from 8% to 5%.

Also again, even if you would have reduced by only 1 % to 7% you would have gotten rid of the invalnuarable 13 shieldskill shields. So why another 1% to 2% to then get 6% or 5%(again i was told not only once sofar it would be 5% now). The argumentation which was presented back then to make that decrease, majorly was pointing towards the invulnurable shield with lvl 13, to nerf anything more was already overdoing it.

So tell me what you want, i know how often my shield breaks nowadays in comparison to before, while the stats of the Elite Cav didnt really change(you first put additional res onto it, then you took it away again, but did not increase any other stats)

[Aksei]

not sure what you did, but HX players more than doubled

[Tydeus]

What i was told, that it would be base and then +5% per skill level.
How on spagethi monsters earth would an increase of % per shield skill, make things worse for shielders?

Also again, even if you would have reduced by only 1 % to 7% you would have gotten rid of the invalnuarable 13 shieldskill shields. So why another 1% to 2% to then get 6% or 5%(again i was told not only once sofar it would be 5% now). The argumentation which was presented back then to make that decrease, majorly was pointing towards the invulnurable shield with lvl 13, to nerf anything more was already overdoing it.

The current formula is 10% plus 6% per level, period. I'm the one who gave cmp the new formula. http://forum.melee.org/closed-beta-testing/wse2-client-server-update-todo-list/

7% per level over 6%, without the base 10%, amounts to a lower % per level. You said nothing of the base 10%, which exists to help lower shield skill shielders, due to the increase in effectiveness of stacking damage reduction(particularly on shields with higher armor values).

Because 98% reduction(14 shield skill * 7%) is, in effect, invulnerability.

[Soulreaver]

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[Umbra]

At fifteen, I had the will to learn; at thirty, I could stand; at forty, I had no doubts; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding; at sixty, my ears were opened; at seventy, I could do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the square.. Long live the mod!

Edit: lol what? This is a worse filter than bundle of sticks

[San]

The lower weight kite shields look more appealing from my point of view, and I even notice a performance increase when I use them. Because of the way movement speed works with weapon length and weight, a 1.5kg 1h and 2.5kg - 3kg shield is going to move almost as fast as the equivalent average 2h/polearm now. 5.5 shield weight never blocked crushthrough anyways. I highly value low shield weight / performance when used compared to durability, since shields can easily be replaced. Others may not, but that's why there are a good amount of medium-weight and heavyweight shields available.

I'm not a fan of omnishields that are great at everything, which is what the elite cavalry shield was in the past, even though it currently has better stats. Now, there are other options available that accomplish different niche roles more effectively. I also disagree that high HP shields weren't buffed enough, some were borderline buffed too much. Most of the high HP shields were the ones that received a +10 increase in armour, while the shields that already had high armour received around 5, or even none in the case of the steel shield and plate covered round shield. People complain about the brown lion heater shield, when it used to have only 8 resistance. Compared to before the shield armour increase, many of the new kite shield stats are still better in durability.

At this point, it's going to be difficult to expect an extremely durable shield among the light and fast category, but most of the heavier shields are quite a bit better now with increased armour. If your shield is breaking too quickly, there are some decent 600+hp, 20+ armour and shields available for use, as well as plate shields.

Then there was a discussion of new game mechanics included which would even out the heavy nerf, still nothing happened.

It's still being discussed, since you have to get others to agree with you. Even so, the changes proposed are more indirect, so many still won't be too satisfied when directly comparing it to shields that almost never broke.

[Harpag]

@ kinngrimm
I have no idea how it works in practice, but naked numbers looks like:

1. Old formula, shield skill 5 X 8% = 40
2. New formula, shield skill 5 X 6 % + 10 still = 40

Of course for shield skill > than 5 we have nerf but look:

Old skill 10 = 80 and new is 70... well, its a lot but for skill 7 It's 56 to 52 and u can live with that. Minmaxed builds = higher risk when new patch is coming.

Items - it's another story, but u can have one very light and fast shield and second heavy for cluster fuck + still u can grab something from field, but if u can destroy shield by 3 or 4 sword hhits it's really bullshit.