That thing called "perfect imbalance"

[Ikarus]

I think cRPG has fulfilled it. Watch it and think about what happened in the past few years in cRPG.
Fascinating.

EDIT:
This explains the existence of mauls and lowers my rage against tubers in COD. This Extra Credits show is neat :o

[Nordwolf]

A few years ago player was good if he could block, now it's someone who can counter block effectively etc.
Thanks for a nice vid Ikarus!

(click to show/hide)

buff long voulge

[Gravoth_iii]

So basically nerf archers.

[Ikarus]

So basically nerf archers.

or cav. no wait, 2h! maul? pikers! xbow. No, horse archers! throwers?
perfect imbalance 

[enigmatic_stranger]

or cav. no wait, 2h! maul? pikers! xbow. No, horse archers! throwers?
perfect imbalance 

Every thread is a nerf archers thread.

[Thranduil]

Nerf perfect imbalance! 

[Kafein]

So basically nerf archers.

This.


The concept explained in this video is quite simple really. It's not "perfect imbalance", it's the development of a statistical rock/paper/scissors metagame (or a more complex variation on that) in which the attractiveness of any given tactic or class or anything of the sort evolves with the popularity of other tactics and classes. It's not without faults though, as this is why we get FOTM stuff.

cRPG is already full of this. You get pikes to counter cav, you get axes to counter shields, you get swords to counter axes, you get maces/picks to counter armor and you get more ranged to counter ranged. Oh wait...

[Lennu]

Well, does the crpg have it's own "noob-tube" weapon? IMO it's the arbalest

Longass time ago when I started playing crpg I make a crossbow-polearm character. Arbalest + steelbolts + long hafted blade + pike. Good players I'd shoot, bad players I could spam + hold s, and well, pike for the cav. Then came in the" advanced" slot system and I forced to use a fighting axe + arbalest. Now I still could 1shot kill everyone but the most heavily armored players, but in melee I'd get rekt.
So I started to learn how to fight in melee. Sadly, I found melee much more enjoyable than camping in a bush for the whole round, loading my xbow.

I've been thinking about turning one of my characters into a crossbowman again. After all I still could fight in melee with the natural high athletics, and then get some powerful 1slot weapon such as warhammer. But I've turned that idea down: it just isn't as effective as dedicated melee. All I would be doing in the end is watch my team A) getting slaughtered B)slaughtering the enemy team, while I fire a shot every 30 sec, feeling good about myself while not really making a difference in the overall outcome.

[Bulzur]

cRPG is already full of this. You get pikes to counter cav, you get axes to counter shields, you get swords to counter axes, you get maces/picks to counter armor and you get more ranged to counter ranged. Oh wait...

So cavs are not used to counter anything in your example.
Such a weak class should get a buff.


Arbalest is slightly stronger than the "noob-tube" though. Since you can also have melee efficiency behind.

Interesting videos nonetheles, thanks for sharing.

[Penitent]

CRPG is not a perfect rock-paper-scissors though.  Cav can be a counter to ranged, but ranged can also be a counter to cav.  It depends on the situation, equipment, map, and # of each class on the team.

Also, shields counter ranged.

[Kafein]

Also, shields counter ranged.

penitent pls

[Thranduil]

....................
Also, shields counter ranged.

Yes....no.....depends....

Average shield is usually wooden. Let's use a decent one (imo a decent one) such as the kite shield.
Now let's choose 3 different ranged. Uhm, let's see. Longbow w/ Tatar arrows, thrower with....well, anything above war darts (with the exceptions of throwing hammer and shuriken), and Arbalest with steel bolts.

Kite shield vs longbow w/ tatar arrows - Shield can take several hits from longbow's tatar arrows. Good protection.
Kite shield vs almost any thrower - Shield is shouting "fuck! fuck! fuck! fuck! fuck!" Shield is broken in a few hits or less. Very temporary protection.
Kite shield vs arbalest w/ steel bolts - Shield may as well not be there. Bolt goes through shield and hits you anyway. Shield never knows it. No protection.

Now let's use a metal covered shield instead. Plate or steel? Plate or steel? ...hhhmmm... I guess I'll use plate since it's more easily available to shielders.

Plate shield vs longbow w/ tatar arrows - Shield can pretty much take a volley. Very good protection.
Plate shield vs almost any thrower - Shield can take some beating. Should take more than 1 throwing lance to break it. Decent, though still temporary, protection.
Plate shield vs arbalest w/ steel bolts - Shield can take several hits from arbalest and not care. Very good protection.

The Kite shield is from experience. The plate shield is from what I've seen. My character usually had 5-6 shield skill.

[Macropus]

penitent pls

With MotF system, shields do counter ranged.

[Penitent]

I keep having to post this, because people don't believe me.

I'm 16 gens shielder.  I counter ranged.  They can't hit me.  They flee from my visage.  I grin with glee when their soft under-armored bodies get within striking distance.  Their 10kg quivers leave them no choice but to face my wrath.  The mere sight of the shield I carry makes them look away in frustration and choose another shieldless fool to tamper with.

With a heavy kite shield, I can take at least 4 throwing lances without breaking, or multiple stacks of throwing axes...and then some.

Arbalests do not pierce my heavy kite shield.  Ballistas do, but the shot loses enough force that I easily survive the hit.  I am more than happy to protect teammates who would choose to use my bulwark of godly ranged defense (the lowly shield) as cover while we advance upon the archers, but this rarely happens.

Watch and learn!

[Penitent]

With MotF system, shields do counter ranged.

This is true as well.  Maybe you guys are only speaking from a battle perspective because you only play battle.  How sad.

On siege, shields counter ranged all day.