Rear length

[JasonPastman]

Cav is still one of the easiest and most rewarding classes once you understand what to do, but it takes a few days to a week to learn. You're in control of your own risk/reward most of the time.

San what's your 15 str alt light cav's name that has given you that insight?

[San]

Sanworrier.
I had a lot of experience learning how to stop and manipulate other horses during my time as a lancer cav + 1h on foot.

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[Relit]

Just tossing this in here as a aside: I can still glance rear horses on occasion with my pike. Is it based on a damage thresh-hold? like am I doing so much damage even with a glance that it triggers the rearing?

[PsychoTwins]

Just tossing this in here as a aside: I can still glance rear horses on occasion with my pike. Is it based on a damage thresh-hold? like am I doing so much damage even with a glance that it triggers the rearing?

I believe so. Same concept of how people get killed by glances. It still does damage.

[San]

^This. Under 30 armour, you could imagine how difficult it is to deal 0 damage, especially when the horse is typically moving towards the stab. I wasn't able to force glances reliably until +3 warhorse levels of armour, around 42-45+.

[JasonPastman]

San, when did you respec to 1h shield cav, personally imo you might wanna consider 1h/pole shield cav given the new wpf distribution. You were good at lance cav back b4 they nerfed it 4 or 5 times over.

Also san, your to strunk man, my K/D is only (Kills/Deaths:3987/3828, 1.0:1)

While I do agree that heavy cav is probably the easiest class in the game, based on my experiences, light cav w/15str is one of the harder classes to play in this game. Assuming that is what your playing san, your kd is quite impressive.

[imisshotmail]

While I do agree that heavy cav is probably the easiest class in the game, based on my experiences, light cav w/15str is one of the harder classes to play in this game. Assuming that is what your playing san, your kd is quite impressive.

He's playing Heavy Cav as far as I know but the point still stands. While that KDR would be somewhat hard to get as light cav, a 3:1 would be bare minimum you should be getting, and 4-5:1 if you are good at it and can melee too. Lets say you are an ok melee player and would go 2:1 on foot with a 15/21 build, if you add a destrier/courser or whatever to that build boom thats an extra 2 free kills per life average and a 4:1 kdr. Obviously thats simplifying the whole thing but that's pretty much the easiest way to explain why cavalry is so strong.

[San]

It was heavy cav, barded->padded->large warhorse, easier at each stage. Light cav would be much worse from what I imagine. I did half and half with green tunic over mail and green rus lamellar and it didn't really change much since I did better on foot with the lighter armour, but worse on horse. That was my first prolonged time with 1h cav outside of the odd strat battle back in 2013. The top cav probably have much better performance than I do.

What I was trying to get at is that with cav, you can choose your encounters and your chance of success most of the time. Encounters you can't easily control, such as cav v cav, can be practiced just like melee vs melee. Unfortunately, for me, that means 50/50 chance of losing on a full speed head on collision (fun), or "gay" them with maneuvering and stopping their horse for an easier win (boring). Not saying you'll be a juggernaut right after picking it up, but your choices have tangible (and usually immediate) results. This results in a pleasant learning curve as you get used to it.

[Grumbs]

I said it a few times but make the heavier horses cheaper but tweak the stats so they are more in line with lighter horses, just slightly heavier versions. This will also help to counter HA/HX

Something is probably OP when its expected to get 3:1+ KDR without much experience at it. The bump/hit mechanics can be tweaked as well, and maybe have a look at the swing duration/sweetspot

Ranged are out of control anyway, just sort out each class by itself based on difficulty/risk/reward rather than keeping something strong just to counter something else like cav vs ranged. Look at ranged individually to see why so many people opt to play it (hint - it is super versatile, melee is mostly player skill and 1/0 slot 1 handers are great weapons, countering melee hits is trivial, especially with 1 handers not getting weapon stunned, click on guys from a distance to kill with relatively easy fps mechanics etc)

[Angantyr]

especially with 1 handers not getting weapon stunned

Yes, what is up with weapon stun as of late?

Previously using heavy weapons against light weapons and vice versa was really noticeable as it should be, weight class differences feel more artificial and superficial now. Toothpicks held in one hand duelling with long bardiches like it was some fantasy universe.

[JasonPastman]

@San and imisshotmail, I agree to a certain extent, but you also have to take into consideration that 50% if not more of the maps on the NA1 rotation are city or village, often very closed in and are thus light cav unfriendly maps. This means that far less often your not in control of the encounter and thus subject to more vulnerabilities then advantages when engaged.  Furthermore, range particularly on these maps have the ability to set up at unreachable places or "dead ends" often devastating you before or as you are being swarmed by the other team.  Not so much of a problem for heavy cav as they generally can plow through mobs and take many projectiles (although maybe not with this new change).  Although, on open maps where you can pick your fight there the advantage is again with the cav and the kd does reflect this. 

When 1h went op I decided to go 2h heavy cav, 24/15, ((+3)(barbed horse, Serbian with knee caps, plate boots..etc)) and without trying at level 33 I was easily able to go 5/1 sometimes even 10/1 or 10/0 and would make money or if I would lose it would be very little do to banner stack and valor.  With my current build it is almost impossible to get those kind of numbers although my overall damage output is generally high my kd is often very low relative to my score (why i feel the lance needs a buff - it is silly, really, when I'm charging full speed and lance a un-helmed guy in the face and he doesn't die, or when my angle is not perfect or I'm not charging full speed and my lance just bounces of some plate guy (especially heavy cav)-).  Heavy cav do not have these problems (unless they use the lance -but then you just couch- as you just park or plow your tank up to or into some enemies and start slashing and the numbers really add up when your probably going to survive the whole round doing it.  For light cav this kind of behavior would mean instant death. Cav need to be thought of in the same way we think of strength and agility and ranged foot.  Light and heavy cav are two completely different classes, and it is silly, perhaps even border line ignorant to group all cav classes together.

[imisshotmail]

Lance cav is still stronger that 1h/2h cavalry imo but anyway- Heavy Cavalry is ridiculously strong, but the fact that light cav are nowhere near as strong as heavy doesn't mean they aren't OP either. If every armoured horse got removed from the game, cav would still be the best class by some distance.

I do agree about the maps though but I don't see that as a balance problem, just as a Bad Map Rotation problem, with half the maps being horrible to play cavalry or melee without a shield because of the corridors that you have to run through with ranged on the other side getting free shots.

[SugarHoe]

San what's your 15 str alt light cav's name that has given you that insight?

oh man get rekt Jason

Sanworrier.
I had a lot of experience learning how to stop and manipulate other horses during my time as a lancer cav + 1h on foot.

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[JasonPastman]

Lance cav is still stronger that 1h/2h cavalry imo but anyway- Heavy Cavalry is ridiculously strong, but the fact that light cav are nowhere near as strong as heavy doesn't mean they aren't OP either. If every armoured horse got removed from the game, cav would still be the best class by some distance.

No way, my HBS does way more damage then my lance, and 1h doesn't have the 23 or w/e % debuff that 2h does plus a force field like shield.  Tactically that statement may be true but I would probably have a higher kdr with 2h not using the lance.  Hell tbh the only reason I use it is because it's fun. 

As far as your op statement, if I may, I for a fact will dismount my opponent in a duel against any light cav, with my current build, while on foot, simply because I understand how to. People who rage that cav is op either simply don't know what to do against them (like a dear in head lights) or are just trolling.  There is a reason cav don't finish off their dismounted opponents, and i has little to do with honor more to do with the fact that light cav are weak and against an aware skilled opponent are at a huge disadvantage.

[Sandersson Jankins]

As far as your op statement, if I may, I for a fact will dismount my opponent in a duel against any light cav, with my current build, while on foot, simply because I understand how to. People who rage that cav is op either simply don't know what to do against them (like a dear in head lights) or are just trolling.

Cavalry, be it light or heavy, forces players to pay attention all the time or be punished heavily. A lot of people don't want to pay attention to the game all the time, so they come to really hate cavalry.