Attempt to balance cavalry overall

[Brutal]

Almost everything you say is true Joker BUT when i m on foot i kill way more cav than cav kill me.
I actually wish they come and charge me because most of the time they are easy kill.

If you get killed by cav almost every time time it's your on fault. Just like when you get killed as a cav.
If you make mistake you die !! it's true for everyclass no just cav.
 

[Kophka]

I'm not sure how anyone can say that cav is OP, unless it's the same people saying everything is OP. Cav has so many counters for as low as 1/10th the upkeep cost. Any long 2 hander can take out an unaware cavalry player, just as cav can take out an unaware player. Any polearm can take out an unaware cav player, see above. Any archer/xbow/thrower can take out an unaware OR aware cav player. We can knock people down AS WE PASS AT HIGH SPEED, leaving us no time to take advantage of it. We can't just target the enemy in a melee crush, as we'll knock down our friends as well. To counter that we knock down with no time to take advantage of it, killing our horse knocks us down, often giving time for enemies to hit us twice, or even 3 times, death for any cav player.. Pair this with the fact that the speed bonus to damage WORKS BOTH WAYS, giving us and our horse horrendous damage for catching an arrow or a spear at a gallop. Our advantage lies in mobility. A clever cavalry player can hit in locations he was not expected to be in ( 'cept our hoofbeats give us away), and can get away from sticky situations (until his horse gets one shotted because we can't watch in for directions at once ; unlike IRL, our horse is not a companion with its own eyes and nose, just a legged transport). I think your problem may be with specific cav builds, and that's your prerogative. But in your rage, please remember that blanket statements like "Cav is OP! NERF ALL CAV" are just silly.

[Joker86]

It's no rage, I play cav myself. 

I also want to give you another argument:

If cav gets nerfed, then less players will play it. If less players play cav, less people will run around with pikes, and will care less about cavalry. So for the few "remaining" cavalrymen the game would become quite a bit easier, despite the nerf.

You know what makes me upset? Currently I don't see a reason why the growing of the cav amount on the server shoud stop. I fear after some time we will have 50% cavalry, totally immobilizing the other classes, making them sit in ruins, towns and on hills. This is my main reason.

Before the patch the easy kills of cavalry made me upset, as I thought they weren't deserved, while some infantry is risking the own skin much more each time. This got a minor problem now.

Or, in other words: I want to make cavalry way less attractive. From your answers I conclude, my suggestion was really good 

[Serth]

Every single time this guy plays a class he starts a new thread about something being op -.-

Cav isnt op, atleast light cav isnt. i play light cav and it dies shit easy..

Only thing that needs nerf is the heavy cav's mobility

[Joker86]

Me? Are you sure? 

[Serth]

Me? Are you sure? 

Extremely... I agree with you, but only with the higher tier horses(plated lolhorses) ... They merely need speed and mobility nerf and everything will be k.

[Kophka]

Honestly Joker, I've seen so many suggestion posts of yours, and I highly doubt that any of them are going to implemented. You tend to go overboard on things, with too many generalities and blanket statements.

[Joker86]

Extremely... I agree with you, but only with the higher tier horses(plated lolhorses) ... They merely need speed and mobility nerf and everything will be k.

Okay.

I was just wondering, and I just checked the topics I started. I wrote this topic here about horses, and another one about certain weapons, especially the blockcrushing bullshit, which needs no skill to have a fairly good chance of killing anybody. Then, some longer time ago, I made a thread to implement some kind of requirement for crossbows and removing the (old) diff 5 horses. (Both things were a problem pre patch, no doubt).

That are all nerf threads I ever made. In fact I plan to start a thread about buffing archers a bit again, and to increase the bag sizes for throwing weapons. Both are classes I actually don't play.

Of course I am always stuck to my personal point of view, but nonetheless I try to stay fair as much as I can. 

This is why I would also lower the speed rating of most 2hd weapons (also 2hd polearms) by 2 points or so, to give the 1hd a chance. Because I am a 2hd-polearm AGI build, and it's really easy for me to outspam people. This can't be. 

Honestly Joker, I've seen so many suggestion posts of yours, and I highly doubt that any of them are going to implemented. You tend to go overboard on things, with too many generalities and blanket statements.

Tweaking things only a bit, as you are afraid of greater changes, doesn't help anything. 

[Sir_Walther]

omg joker . Stupid stats . 5 charge???? . Makes no sense. Horses are fine. Look at the prices.

Yes i remember the threat about OPPPP PIKES from joker, but didnt read it

[EponiCo]

You know what makes me upset? Currently I don't see a reason why the growing of the cav amount on the server shoud stop. I fear after some time we will have 50% cavalry, totally immobilizing the other classes, making them sit in ruins, towns and on hills. This is my main reason.

I agree to this. I don't have a particular problem killing cavalry, I've been anti cav for a long time, but in all this time I've only watched them become more and more. And if 50% of the enemy is cav all that remains is shoot at a horse, watch it ride away or sometimes kill, shoot the next to comes passing, rinse repeat, or stand guard with pikes, I don't want to play moorhuhn all day, especially with ranged nerf. Be in a melee, good way to get morningstared from behind stop the cav there good way to be killed by infantry and watch the rider get away with still half hp. All I'd want regarding horses would be to limit their numbers ... heck, a chocolate chip cookie system that just said "no peon, you don't get a horse" would be better than having them accessible to everyone if it came to me. 

[Joker86]

omg joker . Stupid stats . 5 charge???? . Makes no sense. Horses are fine. Look at the prices.

Yes i remember the threat about OPPPP PIKES from joker, but didnt read it

You remember wrong, never wrote such a topic as I always thought pikes were fine. If at all, they need a buff!

What do you care for charge? Your weapon has to make kills, not your horse. 

[Kophka]

Actually, I'm in support of charge being reduced. I too believe that weapons should get the kills, and not the mount. It's realistic that it does damage to you, but it's not good for the game. Knockdown/stun, yes, but damage, no, it's a bit unbalanced. But there is nothing wrong with the rest of the stats on horses, the only problem I have is that heavy horses are faster than light because of the effect of the higher riding requirement. Makes being light cavalry by choice a self-nerf, with out any advantages for choosing a lighter play style.

[Opium.dk]

Theres no reason to nerf.

Just make the upkeep and cost much bigger.

Getting a horse for 3k is ridiculos when you earn 10k an hour.

[Poetrydog]

Theres no reason to nerf.

Just make the upkeep and cost much bigger.

Getting a horse for 3k is ridiculos when you earn 10k an hour.

Well what Joker (i think) wants to accomplish is not to nerf it by money, then they'd still be OP. From what i read he wants them to be easier obtainable and in return also be harder to get kills with. Thereby making cav accessible for 1st gen players but a lot less attractive 

[Joker86]

Right.

Making them just more expensive wouldn't help much, from two reasons:

1st: everyone should have the chance to use cavalry, if he wants to. This doesn't mean he automatically gets better in the game, so I think a stat nerf according to the few thousands you have to pay would be justified. (And, if you look at it properly, if 80HP or 60HP doesn't make a real difference, with the speed bonus for attackers your horse will be dead anyway from a pikestab/swordslash. Also 2-3 points speed less don't change much). A simple reason why the stats deserve to be nerfed, despite any value calculations or whatever: there are too many light horses on the servers! You have to nerf horses until you reach a horse population on the servers which is acceptable. If after some time the population gets too low you can buff them a bit again, then nerf them, and so on, until balance has leveled out itself on the ideal niveau.

2nd: making things expensive doesn't really balance them out, I think. The patch was meant to stop those tincans on plated horses, but if someone saves some money he can play as heavy knight for some rounds. For the other players who have to deal with him nothing changes much. If he is actually on the map, what do you care about that he will be able to do this only for the next few rounds? Currently he is there and is collecting cheap kills. And as soon as he runs out of money another guy puts on his plate. And no, the patch didn't minimize the overall number of (heavy) cavalry on the servers, as the cavalry players are alternating now in their lolstomp, because of the simple fact that with the new money income much more players can purchase heavy equipment.

Before the patch we had 10% of the players playing 100% of their time as heavy cav. Now we have 30% of the players playing 33% of their time as heavy cav. Both is 10% heavy cav on the battlefield. (Don't argue about the 10%, could be 5%, 12% or 2%, don't know. Just felt values.)

This is the reason why I think that in most cases a balancing by price does not really eliminate problems. The stats decide about how many players want to use an item, not the price!