Author Topic: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff  (Read 7230 times)

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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2014, 02:50:25 pm »
+1
How about we add +1 more speed to everything and remove the +1 speed buff on looms?

Should've buffed the Long Voulge's speed also.

Remove Unbalanced, give it a few more stab damage and it might be an OK weapon
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Offline Prpavi

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2014, 03:22:03 pm »
+1
The Voulge was nerfed because of Strategus I believe
And now he can't play because of "common sense" and he doesn't understand how this common sense works
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2014, 07:50:28 pm »
+1
Will you just stop already? Use one of these slower weapons in a duel against a very skilled player. One of two things will happen, you'll get rolled because you're bad at blocking/play too aggressively or, you'll bore each other and anyone else watching to death. The increased speed wasn't just to speed up combat though, it was also done so as to not slow down thrusts(and partially swings) too much. If you make it so that you can only deal damage later in an animation(what our sweetspot change did, mostly to thrusts, but also horizontals as well), then you have literally just slowed the game down. You have reduced everyone's effective speed.

Both speed and damage are appropriate for making melee more deadly. In fact, they're the only things you should even consider changing (even soak/reduce changes should be off the table, as they affect ranged as well).

Well, I see your point but it doesn't really make mine less true. And yes I don't like using those slower weapons personally because I'm not into this early hitting business all that much, unless it's for trolling. Those that do, however, don't really care about speed rating. In a sense this change is good because it made some of the "slow" weapons a little bit easier to use for newer players and not affect the veterans all that much. However, at first glance some of the choices are questionable: straight up buffing the LWA even though it was already fast as hell, I don't see the point.

My point is that there is a very easy way to make the game faster, and you are choosing the complicated and risky method. It will make attacks faster, but will it keep the depth of combat intact ? Fighting a few specific players is already a spamming contest to some degree, and the problem when spam becomes that good, as the reaction window for blocking becomes shorter, is that the correct response is removing all depth from one's fighting style, and you get a blockfest.

You can adjust the balance a little bit better with those speed buffs (because yes, the longsword/HBS/BS are the best duelling 2h, and the big ass greatswords are kind of bad for most players), but you can't compress the time it takes to land a bazillion hits on someone to make things die by just changing speed ratings. Unless you also make melee weapons just more powerful. Of course, it should be done in a way that doesn't allow completely bypassing the sweetspots due to increased damage.

Offline Grumbs

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2014, 07:20:47 pm »
+1
Since the most recent patch, most 95 speed and below weapons received a buff of +1 speed with a few exceptions. Here are some of the more notable weapons I see that may not have stood out much before:

1h:

Iron Battle Axe: One of the exceptions, +1 speed to 97. With 36 cut, it's quite a beast now.
Iron War Axe: Its brother, 96 speed and 37 cut.

Military Cleaver(?) I forget if this was 95 or 96 speed, but it's great either way.
Military Hammer: Even better than before, 94 to 95 speed will make quite the difference.

Arabian Cavalry Sword: Now top tier in both price and stats, this sword really doesn't have much of a weakness anymore.


2h: Return of Greatswords?

Two Handed Sword: Now 97 speed, a great intermediary between longsword and great sword.
Dadao: Even closer to the miaodao now with a cheaper price.
War Cleaver: Awesome power and length:speed ratio.
Goedendag(?): Forget if this was 95 speed or 96 in the past, quite a great weapon either way you look at it.

All greatswords: To me, the 117-121 length weapons stand out the most. 95 speed flambard sounds great. Interestingly, though, the Danish/German are only slightly slower than they were in the past, but now with slightly better power. Nodachi and flamberge are also looking pretty good, too.


Polearms:

Iron staff: 96 speed, great overheads and side swings. A knockdown machine if you can get a good bonk on the head.
Double Sided Lance: 1 speed away from war spear, can now rear horses, and its stab is absolutely devastating. Definitely a good weapon to loom.
Long War Axe: Now that it's only 2 speed away from the long axe, even players that prioritize speed might want to pick this up with the superior length.
Bec de Corbin: Was nerfed in the past, but now it has a huge second wind since it's quite great compared to other blunt/pierce weapons nowadays. Only 1 speed away from war spear.

Every long, swingy polearm: Glaive, Bardiche, Bill, Swiss halberd, the list goes on. The fix to left swings and most notably overheads makes for almost all swing directions of these weapons terrifying to deal with. The +1 speed helps even more.


As an aside, the angle on swings are narrower than before, too. Can't be too sloppy with the side swings.

Discuss. Any weapons you find interesting?

I got a masterwork Godendag and it seems pretty weak. I'd up the damage a bit on the side swings
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2014, 07:40:33 pm »
+1
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Military Cleaver(?) I forget if this was 95 or 96 speed, but it's great either way.
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I remember the military cleaver being 96 speed/92 reach from before patch, but you're right, it is one great weapon (i only really used in strat battles, but it's still a beast if you have 7 PS using a MW version against even plate armored enemies). 
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2014, 07:42:34 pm »
+1
Two handed sword, you say? Trading a +3 THS for either +3 Flambard or +3 Goedendag.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2014, 09:31:02 pm »
+2
I got a masterwork Godendag and it seems pretty weak. I'd up the damage a bit on the side swings

Really? It's much better than longsword, in my opinion. I haven't used it since the knockdown tweak, but it was very strong before. With a lot of head-hits and leg-hits it should still be a great weapon.
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Offline Elindor

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2014, 08:28:18 pm »
+3
I actually overbuffed the polearm overswing animation when I changed it several months ago. Instead of the polearm overhead hitting slower, it now hits faster than the two-handed overhead animation, and by quite a fair bit, actually.

Tydeus...why you do dis :(

So pole overheads connect faster and (as you recently also disclosed, if i understood it correctly) the nature of the stab animation actually makes the release segment of the pole thrust animation quicker than other classes.

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« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 08:46:14 pm by Elindor »
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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2014, 08:32:14 pm »
+2
...Use one of these slower weapons in a duel against a very skilled player...

Do we balance based more on performance of weapons in duel or battle/siege or all of the above.
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Offline Phew

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2014, 09:31:35 pm »
+2
I'm a little confused by all the recent pole slobbing:

-One of the few major advantages 2H had over pole before this patch was easier hitlslashing, but now it seems like the smaller sideswing sweetspots have seriously cut down on hiltslashing
-The insta-stab nature of pole thrust is at least as big of a threat as the reach of 2h thrust in typical battle situations, especially on 2d polearms
-Now pole has a superior overhead vs. 2h
-One of the most popular 4d poles (Bec) just got a speed buff, while it was mostly unpopular 2Hs that got their speed buffed.
-Almost every pole rears horses now

I take back every bad thing I ever said about Longsword crutchers; they are now a minimal threat compared to all the awlpike/bec users that run around 1-2 shotting everyone.

Offline Elindor

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2014, 09:37:06 pm »
+2
I'm a little confused by all the recent pole slobbing:

-One of the few major advantages 2H had over pole before this patch was easier hitlslashing, but now it seems like the smaller sideswing sweetspots have seriously cut down on hiltslashing
-The insta-stab nature of pole thrust is at least as big of a threat as the reach of 2h thrust in typical battle situations, especially on 2d polearms
-Now pole has a superior overhead vs. 2h
-One of the most popular 4d poles (Bec) just got a speed buff, while it was mostly unpopular 2Hs that got their speed buffed.
-Almost every pole rears horses now

I take back every bad thing I ever said about Longsword crutchers; they are now a minimal threat compared to all the awlpike/bec users that run around 1-2 shotting everyone.

Careful Phew, people who talk bad about poles end up with broken knees round this part....
2h is OP and don't you forget it!

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2014, 07:40:18 am »
+3
Swiss halberd was great before, and even better now. It's my favorite support weapon.
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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2014, 09:45:17 am »
+3
To me the game feels more balanced then it has in a very long time.
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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2014, 11:01:04 am »
+1
Kafein you are outright wrong.


Survive-ability is perfect... Until you take loomed armour into account. Loomed armour is broken and the ability to get high armour with low str does not help.


I hope Tydeus reads this. Decrease loom bonus on gloves and or armour by 1 if you care about what kafein is talking about. I dont. I have lordly heraldic mail and plate + lordly gilded hourglass gauntlets and love my 24/15 lvl 32 build.
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Offline Sniger

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Re: Some good weapons with the recent speed buff
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2014, 04:00:11 pm »
+1
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