Balancing suggestions for some praticular weapons

[Joker86]

Hi there!

Although I am not really happy about the new patch it's still better than it was before. Only some minor tweaks need to be done. I will concentrate on nerfs now, as buffs never are that urgent 

So now let's see:
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- Lance of compensation:
  (Long Great Lance)

5387
weight 5
requirement 9
spd rtng 55
weapon length 382
swing damage 0, cut
thrust damage 24 pierce
Couchable
Penalty with Shield


I think this item should simply be removed somehow. Set its difficulty to 40 first, and after a week or two, where every owner had time to sell it, simply remove the item. Due to the insane model lenght there is no other solution, as it is simply inacceptable that you can kill pikemen with this who are aware of you!

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- Morningstar

3978
weight 3.8
requirement 13
spd rtng 92
weapon length 82
swing damage 38, pierce
thrust damage 0 pierce
Crushtrhough
Unbalanced

I think the crushthrough in combination with the rather high speed is IMBA. Solutions would be to lower the speed or remove the crushthrough. I would tend to latter. This would also justify the really low price!

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- Maul
- Studded Warclub
- Mallet
- Bar Mace
- Great Maul
- Long Maul

You can already guess what I am aiming at: maybe the crushthrough is balanced on Native servers, but as you can increase you strength and WPF to a high level in cRPG, even with the lvl30 softcap, those weapons become unbalanced, as you can run around with them and spam overheadswings everywhere. Yeah yeah yeah, I know it's soooooo easy to counter... in theory!

I have an all AGI 1hd 100speed build, and even with this I can stop them only with about 50% chance. Due to the reach my other polearm build can stop them by about 60-70% chance. If you miss him, your hit bounces off their armour (and those guys have always best possible armour for this reason), you are dead. Simply dead. Because even if you lower the damage by blocking it, you will be knocked down most likely, which is equal to instant death. And no, neither kicking nor sidestepping works against such guys. They just run arund, facehug everyone and then kill everyone.

I think the amount of your frags should be equal to the amount of your effort. And overhead spamming is no effort (or skill) at all, but you can collect shitloads of frags with it, even if you get killed every round. So do something about it. Increase their speed, but lower their crushthrough chance to 25% at the most for the great maul. Make them just some knockdown-bluntweapons with high damage but lower speed. No "Oh! A shield! *switch to hammer*"-weapons. That's just lame. Get used to deal with a shield properly, instead of just using an imbalance to “bypass” the shield.

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Also I think the Long Poleaxe (Looney Toons Axe) is kind of "marginal"... to be honest I wouldn't mind if it disappeared ;)

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I will soon open a seperate thread for horses, as my suggestions will probably provoke a lot of emotional reactions ;)

Now what do you think?

[Morieff]

I agree about LoC.

But i'm making a Morning-star char. A good 2H easily counter me.
Due to my lack of agi to maximize power strike (8atm) , i have only 4 athletic and i'm too slow to make a good footwork (and i don't wear a buig armor for wpf penlities). I feel my char balanced.

[Vexus]

Problem with morningstar is that it's pierced, when you crush through your hitting them in their faces and pierce does x3 to the head making it very strong.

[Paul]

I have been thinking about changing morningstar crush through flag to bonus against shields, as I suggested in Native beta long time ago.

[Morieff]

The piercing damage is the only advantage vs knockdown bar mace. And morningstar is shorter.

In addition bar mace should'nt be unbalanced due to a good weight repartition.

[Vexus]

I have been thinking about changing morningstar crush through flag to bonus against shields, as I suggested in Native beta long time ago.

That would be great I would use it on my 2h character as a substitute of the great bardiche.

[Grey]

hey, crushthrough, oooonooo, what are u blocking with? Morningstar wont go thru heavy weapons, also dodging overhead IS easy

[Joker86]

hey, crushthrough, oooonooo, what are u blocking with? Morningstar wont go thru heavy weapons, also dodging overhead IS easy

I block with a shield or a long hafter blade.

And you can only dodge overheads if a complete noob is doing them. I would like to see how people try to dodge Burrick or Meliossandro. 

They just turn while swinging downwards. No chance to dodge. And I had 8 ATH with one of my characters...

[UrLukur]

Overheads with blockcrush should be either outspammable at level 30 or blockable. This could done in numerous ways, decreasing weight of crushweapons, decreasing their damage, decreasing their range, change some of hammers to polearms for less range (or simply use polearm animation on overhead) and perhaps some other ways.

[DarkFox]

You can already guess what I am aiming at: maybe the crushthrough is balanced on Native servers, but as you can increase you strength and WPF to a high level in cRPG, even with the lvl30 softcap, those weapons become unbalanced, as you can run around with them and spam overheadswings everywhere. Yeah yeah yeah, I know it's soooooo easy to counter... in theory!

In native everyone  have same lvl and still this weapon is not OP.The only weapon that needs small fix is bar mace,make it slower.

And overhead spamming is no effort (or skill) at all

Simple whining.Maybe you want to remove blockcrushing totally?Take great maul and I  will see how you will spamm.

[ViiKOLD]

I block with a shield or a long hafter blade.

And you can only dodge overheads if a complete noob is doing them. I would like to see how people try to dodge Burrick or Meliossandro. 

They just turn while swinging downwards. No chance to dodge. And I had 8 ATH with one of my characters...

So it should be nerfed because few people very good at using them?

[Joker86]

Usually whoever uses such weapons, especially the great maul and the former boulder on a stick, has more frags than he would have without it. The weapon lowers actual fighting with footwork, blocking and other things to a minimum.

And in my 1st generation, when I was 2hd specced, I HAD a great maul. Using it was easy as pie. I want to nerf everything with which I was able to make easy kills.

[Opium.dk]

I want to nerf everything with which I was able to make easy kills.

You wanna nerf most of the polearms then.
You should play a game and notice just how many people use polearms and then how many of them simply spam and get kills without any effor.

Most of the polearms outclass everything else, longer reach, huge damage, crushes shields and are very fast.

[Joker86]

I didn't try the halberds yet, but you are probably right 

My problem is: I probably AM a spammer (although I block, too). That's because I ALWAYS am. Since the brawls on the schoolyard I am convinced that speed beats strength. In any RPG game I always go on fast builds. I can't judge "spamming"-weapons properly, so I don't try, as I am biased. But I guess, if we compare

Elegant Poleaxe
12026
weight 2
requirement 16
spd rtng 93
weapon length 132
swing damage 40, cut
thrust damage 26 pierce

to

Danish Greatsword
12248
weight 2.5
requirement 14
spd rtng 93
weapon length 124
swing damage 40, cut
thrust damage 27 pierce

There is clearly something broken. For 2 req more you get 0.5 less weight, same speed, + 8 length and about the same damage. The better 2hd animations probably even this out a bit, but I think you are right. Longer weapons should have either less damage (= they are lighter) or less speed (= they are heavier). 

[Opium.dk]

Well polearms are obviously OP and the vast majority of players know it.


The average game as 60-70% polearm users.