Poll

What would you vote?

Independence
76 (52.8%)
UK
68 (47.2%)

Total Members Voted: 142

Author Topic: Independent Scotland  (Read 12672 times)

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Offline tizzango

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #195 on: September 21, 2014, 11:16:06 pm »
+1
Whilst that's true, that's also part of being in a democracy. Scotland has been very well represented in Westminster for decades, particularly under the last labour government. Just because a vote goes against the way a particular part of the nation votes is no reason to throw the toys out of the pram.

Right to clarify, I am NOT anti-Union. I am just very pro-independence. I do appreciate Westminster and I'm not saying that Scotland aren't fairly represented. However, in this instance, the majority of Scots have chosen to vote for the current opposition and not Conservative. The population of Scotland is a mere 1/10th of the collective electorate, so whatever government the Scots will vote for, it's highly unlikely that a Scottish party will ever be part of UK Governance. We had the chance to rectify that, and we will need to literally wait another 25 years to even CONSIDER another referendum.

Obviously we can discuss trident (there is oil under trident), North sea-oil revenue, jobs, and equal wages. But I mean, it's too late now and I have to bite the bullet.

Quote
Do old people not have access to technology in Scotland? Practically everyone I know in the older generation uses smart phones, tablets ect now and frequently accesses vast amounts of online content. Perhaps it could be that the older generation have their heads screwed on a bit more and actually take the time to think about the issues? Or maybe that's equally as stupid a generalisation as yours  :rolleyes:

I'm not a fan of mixing political discussion with anecdotal evidence. We are no doubt within the same generation. I am 22 pushing 23. I still don't know what you mean by this paragraph.

Offline tizzango

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #196 on: September 21, 2014, 11:17:38 pm »
+2
I know right :P Tony Blair was born and spent a lot of his education in Scotland and Brown is pure Scot but its probably mean ole England oppressing them.

Just because a PM is Scottish or went to a Scottish school doesn't mean that Scotland as a nation is well represented in Westminster.

Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #197 on: September 21, 2014, 11:34:30 pm »
+2
tizzango right now

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Offline Umbra

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #198 on: September 21, 2014, 11:47:27 pm »
0
Dont worry tizzango next time you got this. Just another 300 years
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #199 on: September 21, 2014, 11:54:56 pm »
0
Scotland's GDP is at 99% and is third highest out of the 12 regions within the UK only behind London and South East England. In 2012 Scotland gained a place at the expense of East England. That puts 9 regions GDP below Scotland's, 7 of which happen to be in England.

Although London raises the most tax it does not account for the rest of England. Out of the 9 regions 3 are surplus while 6 are subsidized putting England as a country into debt.

Those figures are a bit out of date now, but still gives a true reflection of how the north and west of England are subsidized and still shows Scotland as the 4th richest region within the UK, the growth in Scotland has improved since then, although it has stalled now (ostensibly) under the conservative party and it's infamous cuts ala "Torrie cuts".

Additionally, Scotland and England have opposing social and political views. Scotland doesn't want a conservative government, I would urge you to look up how the Scotland votes as a nation and how England votes. A conservative government and their idea of privatising everything (fair enough that's an exaggeration) is a quick fix for money and is not a sustainable plan, ESPECIALLY up here in Scotland, where our own Scottish government have conflicting policies and ideologies. With regards to education/tuition and the NHS, as well as providing a welfare state.

I would love to have time to list all the reasons why I voted Yes, should you wish to hear please ask. I could bore you to death all day. And I will provide sources upon request, I haven't got time to write pages atm.
I completely respect any argument for independence other than economic arguments and I definitely agree with there being somewhat of a political rift between Scotland and England. However anyone saying with a straight face that the Scottish economy will definitely be better off after independence is still biased. The difference between the Scottish GDP and the national is still rather marginal, even when taking into account the revenues from North Sea oil and gas. It's hardly like Scotland is being held back by the UK on an economic level. Regardless from that though, going independent will have an effect on so many things, few people can oversee it all and no one can predict what it is going to happen, least of all your average politician or journalist. One thing that is fairly easy to predict is that uncertainty doesn't sit well with financial markets. Combine general uncertainty with the unpredictability of oil and gas prices on which Scotland would rely fairly heavily, and you have a recipe for an investment choke.

It is likely that there will be economic decline after independence, at least on the short term because of poor credit flow. After that it is anyone's guess. I doubt it would be disastrous decline so Scots should have asked themselves if they are willing to pay for independence. Arguments that the economy will go flying high though are simply completely unjustified. If you ask me, from a Scottish national perspective, this referendum should have either been done before the crisis or been held off a few years until people were less recently confronted with economic decline. In 2005 few people gave a shit about the economy as everything seemed trod along just fine, and non-economic pro's would probably easily have trumped economic uncertainty con's.

At least the upside for the English is that their current account won't get fucked further by the loss of oil and gas, and the upside for me as a non-UK citizen is that Labour won't lose a big part of their voterbase, so perhaps the UK won't go full Toritard forever now.

Offline tizzango

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #200 on: September 22, 2014, 12:14:39 am »
0
I completely respect any argument for independence other than economic arguments and I definitely agree with there being somewhat of a political rift between Scotland and England. However anyone saying with a straight face that the Scottish economy will definitely be better off after independence is still biased.

At least the upside for the English is that their current account won't get fucked further by the loss of oil and gas, and the upside for me as a non-UK citizen is that Labour won't lose a big part of their voterbase, so perhaps the UK won't go full Toritard forever now.

Yeah obviously the big risk was the 'economical prosperity' question, even the Yes campaign said they were unsure and that there were no immediate answers with regards to the economical stability of a newly independent country, it would be extremely silly to say 'this or that is definitely going to happen', and that's why I ultimately refute the 'No campaign', because that is exactly what they did.

Should there have been a Yes decision, contingency plans would've have to be put in place and the future would be written over the course of 2 years (It would take 2 years for Scotland to go fully independent). But to be concise; I agree with you here.

There would be no absolute certainty for economical prosperity in the short-term, but in the long-term it would stabilize, at least in my opinion.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #201 on: September 22, 2014, 02:19:26 am »
0
No vote narrowly winning the referendum

55:45 isn't narrow win, 51:49 is. You really expected more than 75% Scots to vote no?

Offline Leshma

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #202 on: September 22, 2014, 02:22:31 am »
0
What you consider being "proper" win, Mr Realist?

Offline Leshma

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #203 on: September 22, 2014, 02:29:04 am »
0
I asked for opinion, you deny me one. Little mind games you play with Xant are not my thing, think of that as massive waste of time. Prefer being told to fuck off, it's quick and to the point.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #204 on: September 22, 2014, 03:42:14 am »
0
What happened yesterday, stays in that time frame. No agenda against you or your sweet Britain. Likability factor still trending high. Permahate reserved only for the wicked.

Offline LordBerenger

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #205 on: September 22, 2014, 12:02:08 pm »
0
When whole of Ireland becomes independent u are all fucked.
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Offline Bittersteel

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #206 on: September 22, 2014, 12:48:53 pm »
+4
I asked for opinion, you deny me one. Little mind games you play with Xant are not my thing, think of that as massive waste of time. Prefer being told to fuck off, it's quick and to the point.

Fuck off

Offline Leshma

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #207 on: September 22, 2014, 01:02:53 pm »
0
Just one thing and I'm to the fuck off corner. What do you guys think about recent F1 events, when Nico Rosberg's car didn't start because "problems" and that allowed British favorite to win the race? They already told him couple of times to let Hamilton pass him and snatch the lead and victory, something that German driver refused. I bet they rigged his car so Lewis the cunt could get pass him and take the lead in Championship.

Offline Molly

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #208 on: September 22, 2014, 01:11:56 pm »
0
That theory is utter bullshit. Rosberg didn't finish afaik which means no points for the Production WC either which costs them actual real money.
No racing team would skip a chance to get money. Never.
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Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #209 on: October 01, 2014, 02:07:15 pm »
+12
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