Poll

What would you vote?

Independence
76 (52.8%)
UK
68 (47.2%)

Total Members Voted: 142

Author Topic: Independent Scotland  (Read 12673 times)

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Offline Tovi

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #180 on: September 21, 2014, 02:51:19 pm »
+1
Massive frauds seem possible only with electronic voting machines. But it happens in a lot of developed countries.
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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #181 on: September 21, 2014, 03:20:53 pm »
0
Well, some things to keep in mind before thinking anyone pro-union would tamper with votes:

1: Scotland is part of a union. It isn't a country conquered or subdued, Scotland freely joined the union to make both countries financially stronger.

2. There is no need for "FREEEEEEDOM", if the people you feel are opressing you allow you to take a vote to see if you leae, you aren't being opressed.

3. The largest losers if Scotland went independant would be Scots.
I don't know enough

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Offline Leshma

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #182 on: September 21, 2014, 03:28:37 pm »
0
RT is reporting of possible uprising in Scotland. According to them, it's either that or end of Scottish nation, because Westminster will want revenge for disobedience. Your Empire is still not safe!

And I don't hate the Queen, would like to hate her but she's an Arsenal supporter...

Offline Osiris

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #183 on: September 21, 2014, 03:31:59 pm »
0
getting your news from Russia nowdays eh ^^
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #184 on: September 21, 2014, 03:35:30 pm »
0
:lol:

The woman trying to cover the fraud under estimated the camera angle it seems.
Is there any known elements on the scale of such actions?
Of course Butan springs up attentively when his fellow tin foil hat dunce 'critical thinker' Tovi sees an opportunity to scrutinize something western. If only you would be similarly willing to scrutinize your arguments and sources, because this video is retarded.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #185 on: September 21, 2014, 03:40:36 pm »
0
getting your news from Russia nowdays eh ^^

Found some interview on youtube RT did with Assange and first 10 minutes were about Scottish independence. Of course, Assange topped that with claims that Google is actually run by CIA/NSA and that Google Glass is a plot to take little privacy we have left.

Offline tizzango

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #186 on: September 21, 2014, 08:14:51 pm »
+1
You have no idea how shit it was, I had my face painted and everything.

I woke up to a 'No' majority, devastated. There were people fighting and throwing fire in the streets, absolute chaos.

In other news,

Labour has pulled out of the more powers/devo max proposal. And Tory MPs wont support David Cameron's proposal.

Ed Miliband has rectified his initial statement.

Before I start this spiel, I respect any EDUCATED 'No' vote, but a vote through fear or naivety is the reason why this country is fucking bollocks.

It's a shame that the older generation were allowed to vote, with their fucking limited media availability; they were fed the fear(no) campaign through such tedious articles written by sub-par, biased, and vested journalists who couldn't give a fuck about the economic prosperity of a solo nation but more the financial stability of a already failing fucking Union. Using Scotland as a financial crutch.

If we have learned anything it's that true power lies in fear.

Fuck Torys, Fuck New Labour, Fuck the BBC, and Fuck the No voters.

If there are any other Scottish people here who voted 'No' please have at it.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 11:19:32 pm by tizzango »

Offline Leshma

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #187 on: September 21, 2014, 08:58:23 pm »
0
hacking banter

Offline Teeth

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #188 on: September 21, 2014, 09:16:25 pm »
+1
(click to show/hide)
Doubt there is a significantly larger amount of uneducated 'yes' votes than 'no' votes, actually I find it easier to believe that the 'yes' votes have been more driven by blind romanticism. In fact, if you regard whatever source convinced you that the UK is using Scotland as a financial crutch as a good source, I am not sure if you were on the high-end of the information line. Any source that tells you that Scotland is gonna be better off or even fine is full of shit, because an honest answer is that the future economic situation is highly uncertain, and it is a given that uncertainty doesn't fall well with international finance. In these terrible economic times that will probably land the fresh-faced country into a most unfortunately timed credit slump.

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #189 on: September 21, 2014, 09:24:35 pm »
0
Labour has pulled out of the more powers/devo max proposal. And Tory MPs wont support David Cameron's proposal.

Were you still drunk on grief when you wrote this? Miliband is still readily supporting more powers for Scotland. The only ones complaining are the back benchers. Tories because they want an English only parliament and labour because decentralising the system would seriously damage labour influence in Westminster due to their reliance on Scottish MPs.

It's a shame that the older generation were allowed to vote, with their fucking limited media availability; they were fed the fear(no) campaign through such tedious articles written by sub-par, biased, and vested journalists who couldn't give a fuck about the economic prosperity of a solo nation but more the financial stability of a already failing fucking Union. Using Scotland as a financial crutch.

And lowering the voting age to 16 was a blatant grab at votes by the yes campaign. Because if anyone is easy to brainwash with mindless nationalism it's those who barely even know who the PM is. Let alone take into consideration the possible implications of independence.

Offline Tovi

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #190 on: September 21, 2014, 09:52:03 pm »
0
I hate the Queen, she's a fucking eugenist.

Also, I'm french and I spit on every monarchs. :mrgreen:
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Offline tizzango

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #191 on: September 21, 2014, 10:24:04 pm »
+1
Doubt there is a significantly larger amount of uneducated 'yes' votes than 'no' votes, actually I find it easier to believe that the 'yes' votes have been more driven by blind romanticism.

As aforementioned, I said that it's a shame a lot of votes were cast through fear or naivety, take a quick look at my other post. I'm fully aware both sides have uneducated voters, but for me, a political campaign that utilizes fear as a motivator is disgusting. Yes you are right about the economic fate of Scotland being TRULY 'uncertain' but we would've been fine, I feel- and it would've been taking a risk going independent in such a shit time.

Yet, there are a lot of additional reasons for voting yes, as well as the other 1.6million Scots who voted yes. And I am fairly insulted that you suggested I didn't do my research, I thought you thought better of me than that Teeth.



Quote
In fact, if you regard whatever source convinced you that the UK is using Scotland as a financial crutch as a good source, I am not sure if you were on the high-end of the information line. Any source that tells you that Scotland is gonna be better off or even fine is full of shit, because an honest answer is that the future economic situation is highly uncertain, and it is a given that uncertainty doesn't fall well with international finance.

Scotland's GDP is at 99% and is third highest out of the 12 regions within the UK only behind London and South East England. In 2012 Scotland gained a place at the expense of East England. That puts 9 regions GDP below Scotland's, 7 of which happen to be in England.

Although London raises the most tax it does not account for the rest of England. Out of the 9 regions 3 are surplus while 6 are subsidized putting England as a country into debt.

Those figures are a bit out of date now, but still gives a true reflection of how the north and west of England are subsidized and still shows Scotland as the 4th richest region within the UK, the growth in Scotland has improved since then, although it has stalled now (ostensibly) under the conservative party and it's infamous cuts ala "Torrie cuts".

Additionally, Scotland and England have opposing social and political views. Scotland doesn't want a conservative government, I would urge you to look up how the Scotland votes as a nation and how England votes. A conservative government and their idea of privatising everything (fair enough that's an exaggeration) is a quick fix for money and is not a sustainable plan, ESPECIALLY up here in Scotland, where our own Scottish government have conflicting policies and ideologies. With regards to education/tuition and the NHS, as well as providing a welfare state.

I would love to have time to list all the reasons why I voted Yes, should you wish to hear please ask. I could bore you to death all day. And I will provide sources upon request, I haven't got time to write pages atm.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 10:32:50 pm by tizzango »

Offline tizzango

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #192 on: September 21, 2014, 10:31:12 pm »
0
Were you still drunk on grief when you wrote this? Miliband is still readily supporting more powers for Scotland. The only ones complaining are the back benchers. Tories because they want an English only parliament and labour because decentralising the system would seriously damage labour influence in Westminster due to their reliance on Scottish MPs.

New Labour is finished in Scotland, don't worry about it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29300084

Quote
And lowering the voting age to 16 was a blatant grab at votes by the yes campaign. Because if anyone is easy to brainwash with mindless nationalism it's those who barely even know who the PM is. Let alone take into consideration the possible implications of independence.

I somewhat agree with this. My little cousin was one of these Braveheart wielding bundle of stickss who also voted for the wrong reasons. However, I feel that his generation were able to actively discuss it on Facebook/twitter and were open to a wider variety of mediums of information. Unlike Aunt Betty and the Pensioner Association who were being told that their pensions will be cut, and that Scotland wont be able to produce fire by the BBC and the Daily Mail- mainstream media (the medium more readily accessible to the elderly) favoured the No vote and if you disagree with that then I don't think it's worth discussing it with you anymore.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 10:36:02 pm by tizzango »

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #193 on: September 21, 2014, 10:40:22 pm »
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Additionally, Scotland and England have opposing social and political views. Scotland doesn't want a conservative government, I would urge you to look up how the Scotland votes as a nation and how England votes. A conservative government and their idea of privatising everything (fair enough that's an exaggeration) is a quick fix for money and is not a sustainable plan, ESPECIALLY up here in Scotland, where our own Scottish government have conflicting policies and ideologies. With regards to education/tuition and the NHS, as well as providing a welfare state.

Whilst that's true, that's also part of being in a democracy. Scotland has been very well represented in Westminster for decades, particularly under the last labour government. Just because a vote goes against the way a particular part of the nation votes is no reason to throw the toys out of the pram.

Unlike Aunt Betty and the Pensioner Association who were being told that their pensions will be cut, and that Scotland wont be able to produce fire by the BBC and the Daily Mail- mainstream media (the medium more readily accessible to the elderly) favoured the No vote and if you disagree with that then I don't think it's worth discussing it with you anymore.

Do old people not have access to technology in Scotland? Practically everyone I know in the older generation uses smart phones, tablets ect now and frequently accesses vast amounts of online content. Perhaps it could be that the older generation have their heads screwed on a bit more and actually take the time to think about the issues? Or maybe that's equally as stupid a generalisation as yours  :rolleyes:

Offline Osiris

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Re: Independent Scotland
« Reply #194 on: September 21, 2014, 10:51:19 pm »
0
Whilst that's true, that's also part of being in a democracy. Scotland has been very well represented in Westminster for decades, particularly under the last labour government. Just because a vote goes against the way a particular part of the nation votes is no reason to throw the toys out of the pram.

I know right :P Tony Blair was born and spent a lot of his education in Scotland and Brown is pure Scot but its probably mean ole England oppressing them.
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