Increase the difficulty requirement on Medium/Heavy tier armours. POLL ADDED!

[no_rules_just_play]

The problem with you all is that you keep claiming that a hybrid is OP, while it absolutely isn't. I indeed wanted 'all', because I'm not some fucking str crutcher but somebody who plays to have fun. I'm also concerned that by cutting down the amount of build options to play a certain class won't help a single bit to keep people playing this mod, or the class ofcourse.

I ain't gonna reply to you next time switch, it takes me hours to fucking form an answer because I have to scroll up all the time to see what you fucking wrote.. I never complained a lvl 35 player wouldn't be able to play cav, when people talk about making a build their aim is usually for lvl 31. You can as many builds at 35 to play a certain class, if there is only one at lvl 31 (one that makes you offer every skill you have in order to get enough str AND agility) you have fucked something up.

Yes, I want to be able to play both cavalry and infantery and fyi, I'm offering up my damage output for that. I have 15 str, I could have gotten way more like you guys did. I'm not both riding and walking at the same time, but when I get dismounted, my 4 years of playing allow me to get a second chance. To fight the other lvl 35's on the battlefield that are overpowering me as well as the lvl 35 cavalry did.

There is a lvl 35 'hybrid' you say? How can you be a cav/infantery hybrid if you don't even have enough wm and if to be viable at any of the two, especially infantery.

My point being with the fact that I can stop extremely easy is that it doesn't fucking matter how much armour you have, if you get stopped by a piker which is extremely easy you are dead anyway.

The HA are everywhere these days, there is no running from them and I'm certain a lot of cav players will agree with me.

Why am I playing heavy cav? Why am I using heavy armour? As I mentioned a thousand times before: I use it because it is fun and it looks fucking awesome.

Yeah, maybe I should run from HA and ranged. I'll just hide behind my team untill I can kill the last guy that is alive because that's a lot of fun right?

Thats why agility was/is/will be OP compared to STR, because it offers a lot more gameplay variety with almost no penalties, while on the other hand STR based build are good for a couple of things only.

You can either be good at one of the two OR, average at both.

So because I have the strengths of a lvl 31 build both at infantery and cav, you wouldn't call that average at both? How do you call a lvl 35 str crutching twohander then? I think you would call him good at twohanded and me average at both.

I also never thought the str nerf was a good idea, I was 15/24 way before that. I think STR crutchers were a great challenge.

[Switchtense]

You only play for fun and looks.

So the only reason you don't want armour requirements to be increased is that you cannot use them anymore, and your character will look shit.

I highly doubt you find every armour lighter than Transitionals ugly.

Even if there is only one that you do not find ugly, use that. Problem solved.

You claimed your horse dies instantly anyway, wearing slightly lighter armour will help you to be more agile on foot.

And regarding the "There is a lvl 35 'hybrid' you say? How can you be a cav/infantery hybrid if you don't even have enough wm and if to be viable at any of the two, especially infantery."
Since you do not even bother to read my posts I will just stop wasting my time now. Grow a pair and accept that "nerf" if it is going to happen. (If it makes you feel better, the pole sweetspot nerf was a huge drawback that made certain polearm builds a lot less viable than they used to be as well)

[no_rules_just_play]

And regarding the "There is a lvl 35 'hybrid' you say? How can you be a cav/infantery hybrid if you don't even have enough wm and if to be viable at any of the two, especially infantery."
Since you do not even bother to read my posts I will just stop wasting my time now. Grow a pair and accept that "nerf" if it is going to happen. (If it makes you feel better, the pole sweetspot nerf was a huge drawback that made certain polearm builds a lot less viable than they used to be as well)

Lol I just took hours to read your posts and reply to them

Prove me that hybrids are OP.

[no_rules_just_play]

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[Kalp]

bump

[Tydeus]

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As I have said (and argued) in this thread in the past, I don't believe raising str requirements is a good idea. That being said, your arguments are awful, no_rules. 1.2 k:d on that build is nothing but user error. I've played similar builds at level 30 (no shield skill, no iron flesh, and less WM), and done much, much better than that. Just because you don't perform well, doesn't mean there is a problem with hybrids. That's what we call anecdotal evidence, the lowest form of evidence to be provided.

I don't mean to be an ass, but I think there's simply a discrepancy between what you personally want, and how we want things to be balanced. That is, we don't like the idea of players not having to choose between one thing or the other. We don't want a single build that is capable of doing absolutely everything and performs perfectly in all situations. We want people to have to choose between damage, survivability, maneuverability, utility, range, etc, because this is what brings about variety, and reduces the omnipotence of "min/maxed" builds.

Edit: And before someone says "That's exactly why armor should have higher requirements", that would only be true if it were also true that an agility build has nothing to lose by stacking armor (weight), which simply isn't true. Weight has a non-linear reduction to athletics such that the actual percentile reduction to movement speed is higher with larger athletics values. This means the agi guy loses more per additional kg. Not only is this true for movement speed, but it's actually also true for melee wpf values. Your melee weight penalty is applied as a percentile reduction, not a static amount.

[Kalp]

As I have said (and argued) in this thread in the past, I don't believe raising str requirements is a good idea.

Right. Better to increase the speed and amount of wpf per agi...

[Kafein]

If high AGI builds with heavy armor are really a problem (I can't really tell whether they are or not, most heavy armor users seem to have 21/21 builds), the wpf and movement penalties of armor can be increased. That wouldn't break any build yet still fix the problem.

[_Tak_]

...

What Tydeus said is exactly right, raising str requirements is like a nerf to all agi users, the buff for agi users was made for balance purpose.

remember, as a agi build user you have to hit someone several times before he dies, on the otherhand a full str build kills someone in 1 or 2 hits. also AGI people have less health and always get killed by ranged and cav.

[Switchtense]

remember, as a agi build user you have to hit someone several times before he dies, on the otherhand a full str build kills someone in 1 or 2 hits. also AGI people have less health and always get killed by ranged and cav.

If a high agi build player needs to hit you 4+ times then he does not use the speed bonus properly.
High agility can also hit as hard as a high strength player if he uses his speed bonus. (Does happen often that I get hit by a low armour - short sword - fast as lightning guy for 50% of my health)

Also you are saying that archers prefer shooting the guy that runs 50mph rather than that one bloke who can barely take a step forward?

[_Tak_]

If a high agi build player needs to hit you 4+ times then he does not use the speed bonus properly.
High agility can also hit as hard as a high strength player if he uses his speed bonus. (Does happen often that I get hit by a low armour - short sword - fast as lightning guy for 50% of my health)

Also you are saying that archers prefer shooting the guy that runs 50mph rather than that one bloke who can barely take a step forward?

The high agility guy probably hits you in the head with the short sword, since the buff to hs its pretty normal. even a guy with 7 ath running low armour can hit pretty hard while being fast. most of the players nowadays runs with 8 ath builds. as a agi user i always get killed in 1-2 hits even with 55 armor value.  yes, archers do prefer to shoot agi whores, since they die faster and is a much greater risk than any heavy armoured tincans. if you think high agility can hit as hard as high strength player then your wrong. STR stacking definitely deal more damage than agi build users, don't forget they also get the hp buff from str. one hit in the head from str users will definitely make you lose 80% of health even if you are wearing a full helmet (50+ helmet value). playing as agi build definitely glance more than a pure str build

if you think its op try to play as a pure agi whore and see how tough it is to dodge those arrows and cavs. you will definitely hits less harder than a pure str build anyday

[Panos_]

lungie, go back to your mod pls.

[_Tak_]

Played 18/27 build with 0 PS, killed plate wearers with katanas i picked up off the ground, it was damn easy

Anyone can do that with any build, just saying. If all builds were nerfed then it only leaves one option for everyone. a balanced build. everyone goes 21/21 and everyones happy?

[Gurnisson]

Played 18/27 build with 0 PS, killed plate wearers with katanas i picked up off the ground, it was damn easy.

According to you every agility player uses plate, so obviously the penalty of heavy armour on high agi characters is heavy if you killed them that easy.

[Gurnisson]

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