Ranged stagger removed (Update: made much more rare)

[Jack1]

In my opinion, faster draw speed might not be that necessary. If Cavalry and Infantry class requires some estimation skills, Archer&Crossbowman should require some too (not saying it doesn't, but it's more cruical for classes which rely on hand to hand combat). Otherwise, the surprise effect will be lessened in favor of archers&crossbowmen again, which takes away nearly all the point. But a bit lesser weight for arrows might be good, that extra weight does some difference in close combat.

Again, it's just my opinion.

In NA we have a guy named TRUE candle who can hit 1/4 health while outrunning my 6 athletics. If the weight is changed I'm afraid nobody will catch him.

[Ronin]

In NA we have a guy named TRUE candle who can hit 1/4 health while outrunning my 6 athletics. If the weight is changed I'm afraid nobody will catch him.

Hmm I'm not very familiar with the NA meta, but what are his stats and your stats? I also assume he takes only 1 quiver of arrows.

[Jack1]

Hmm I'm not very familiar with the NA meta, but what are his stats and your stats? I also assume he takes only 1 quiver of arrows.

24-18 and he has two quivers of bodkins. He doesn't talk at all so IDK what his stats are. The current NA meta is high agi polearms. Particularly warspears.

Edit: I have 64 body armor on average and he uses a nomad bow and possibly 3 quivers since he has no sidearm

[Adamar]

Seriously guys, you always say I'm whining but look at you now.

I have a list of things to say in case something like this happens so here it comes:

• Deal with it
• Get a shield lol
• Use tactics
• Use teamwork
• Use map design at your advantage
• Learn to dodge
• Every class has counters
• The class that is killing you is hard to play
• If you don't like the game, you can always quit. We both know that won't happen
• You anti-melee lobbyists sound like a broken record

I'd say ranged have always dealt with it, or at least a lot more than you would.
Shields are meant to handle ranged, that solution is for you.
Ranged IS a tactical class, and naturally attuned to it.
Inf refuses to teamwork, but ranged have generally helped each other, as you often point out.
Ranged first priority is finding good shooting spots, but they keep getting ironed out by certain individuals for your benefit.
Dodging isn't as useful in melee as it is against ranged, and isn't worth crap anyway with the weight nerf.
Melee is hard to play if you're a scrub.
People do quit the game because of nerfs, as intended.
Ranged isn't particularly anti-melee, since melee remains the primary skill in the game and used by all.

Those things apply to melee. Learn the game.

[PsychoTwins]

Why don't you ask a experienced biased archer aka bagge to see what needs fixing with archery. Instead of doing these bullshit changes?

Most dedicated archer/thrower/2h or whatever won't say their class needs a nerf when it does. This patch basically makes it so agiwhore archers that do little to no dmg cant annoy a full plate anymore and makes archers have to use better bows to do well. An archer using a nomad bow and complaining about it doing no dmg is like a polearm guy using a shortened spear, both are faster than the higher tier weapons but are supposed to be less dmg.

[Ronin]

24-18 and he has two quivers of bodkins. He doesn't talk at all so IDK what his stats are. The current NA meta is high agi polearms. Particularly warspears.

Edit: I have 64 body armor on average and he uses a nomad bow and possibly 3 quivers since he has no sidearm

This is just strange in many ways to be honest. Low damage bows like Nomad Bow has been hit the hardest and it shouldn't do much damage to someone like you at all; unless hitting the head. 3 Quiver of arrows and outrunning people sounds like dark magic, it's probably a false assumption.

Given he has no sidearm, he should be cavalry meat at best even if very effective against infantry.

[Kafein]

I'd say ranged have always dealt with it, or at least a lot more than you would.
Shields are meant to handle ranged, that solution is for you.
Ranged IS a tactical class, and naturally attuned to it.
Inf refuses to teamwork, but ranged have generally helped each other, as you often point out.
Ranged first priority is finding good shooting spots, but they keep getting ironed out by certain individuals for your benefit.
Dodging isn't as useful in melee as it is against ranged, and isn't worth crap anyway with the weight nerf.
Melee is hard to play if you're a scrub.
People do quit the game because of nerfs, as intended.
Ranged isn't particularly anti-melee, since melee remains the primary skill in the game and used by all.

Those things apply to melee. Learn the game.

Yeah, you mad

[Idzo]

Remove archers

[Jeraz]

I'm scared that this change will make archers kite more and only infuriate melee players more by running.

They changed the damage done to high armor targets so archers are already less deadly, it was a fine change and i like it but the thing that keeps me alive most of the time is that i can shoot a person and he gets stuned a bit, using a longbow i could start drawing again and could mostly fire 3 shots before being forced to draw my sword.
Before the patches i could kill most players before reaching me with that and now thats gone down to about half to 2/3 (if i hit them all(which is fine for me)).
But now i can only fire 1/2 arrows (3 if i'm lucky) because i don't have that extra time to start drawing my bow after the shot, so people come a lot closer a lot faster.
Because of that i tend to run away much earlyer to prevent being forced in a duel against a guy i only hit 1's (meaning almost certain dead). So archers are now more forced into 2 roles, A: Getting heavyer armor/ps and melee people. or B: get more Agi/Ath and run.
Seeing that duelling a person is still pretty hard as an archer, even with 6ps (which i have). I Think that more people are going to go for AGI based builds and thus more of a running then fighting style, making the complaints of archers kiteing come back.

[Molly]

I'm scared that this change will make archers kite more and only infuriate melee players more by running.

They changed the damage done to high armor targets so archers are already less deadly, it was a fine change and i like it but the thing that keeps me alive most of the time is that i can shoot a person and he gets stuned a bit, using a longbow i could start drawing again and could mostly fire 3 shots before being forced to draw my sword.
Before the patches i could kill most players before reaching me with that and now thats gone down to about half to 2/3 (if i hit them all(which is fine for me)).
But now i can only fire 1/2 arrows (3 if i'm lucky) because i don't have that extra time to start drawing my bow after the shot, so people come a lot closer a lot faster.
Because of that i tend to run away much earlyer to prevent being forced in a duel against a guy i only hit 1's (meaning almost certain dead). So archers are now more forced into 2 roles, A: Getting heavyer armor/ps and melee people. or B: get more Agi/Ath and run.
Seeing that duelling a person is still pretty hard as an archer, even with 6ps (which i have). I Think that more people are going to go for AGI based builds and thus more of a running then fighting style, making the complaints of archers kiteing come back.

If I am not mistaken, more agi means to go down the bow tiers which again leads to even less stunning chance on high armoured enemies which then leads to even more running?
That doesn't seem to make sense from an archer's point of view.
Going more PD, more damage, more stunning, accepting the lower accuracy seems more viable to me. But then again, I am no archer.

[Andswaru]

I'm scared that this change will make archers kite more and only infuriate melee players more by running.

They changed the damage done to high armor targets so archers are already less deadly, it was a fine change and i like it but the thing that keeps me alive most of the time is that i can shoot a person and he gets stuned a bit, using a longbow i could start drawing again and could mostly fire 3 shots before being forced to draw my sword.
Before the patches i could kill most players before reaching me with that and now thats gone down to about half to 2/3 (if i hit them all(which is fine for me)).
But now i can only fire 1/2 arrows (3 if i'm lucky) because i don't have that extra time to start drawing my bow after the shot, so people come a lot closer a lot faster.
Because of that i tend to run away much earlyer to prevent being forced in a duel against a guy i only hit 1's (meaning almost certain dead). So archers are now more forced into 2 roles, A: Getting heavyer armor/ps and melee people. or B: get more Agi/Ath and run.
Seeing that duelling a person is still pretty hard as an archer, even with 6ps (which i have). I Think that more people are going to go for AGI based builds and thus more of a running then fighting style, making the complaints of archers kiteing come back.

Now you have the same parallel diliama the rest of us have, take route a) with a shield or take route b) without a shield. Instead of having only route c) which provided the best of both worlds.

[Angantyr]

They changed the damage done to high armor targets so archers are already less deadly

Wasn't this reverted so as to just make ranged have no extra armor penetration bonus compared to melee anymore = equalizing the two damage-wise?

Same with the new change with stagger, some people seem to take it as a nerf when in fact it is just equalizing poles, 2h, 1h and ranged.

[Rhekimos]

Updated OP to not mislead people with old information.

[Jeraz]

If I am not mistaken, more agi means to go down the bow tiers which again leads to even less stunning chance on high armoured enemies which then leads to even more running?
That doesn't seem to make sense from an archer's point of view.
Going more PD, more damage, more stunning, accepting the lower accuracy seems more viable to me. But then again, I am no archer.

Well, Running is away is a certain tactic, it will always work (1vs1). getting more STR dous make you do more damage but it's still a gamble if it will actually stun + getting more STR/PD will make your WPF go down so it will be harder to hit.

I'm mostly refering to higher level archers, that chose between 18/24 and 18/27. Being 27 ATH is probally beter now cause of the WPF increase and ATH.

But i haven't played with the newest changes yet so ill have to see for my self how "bad" it really is.

Now you have the same parallel diliama the rest of us have, take route a) with a shield or take route b) without a shield. Instead of having only route c) which provided the best of both worlds.

well, it's not the thing that you have to chose, its that i think most people will go for the ATH aproche. Thus bringing back kitting.
But like i said, they tweaked it a bit and i have yet to test that out. So will see.

[bavvoz]

Stunning ppl or kiting them is in a way the same thing imo. Both are used to help the archer keeping them at distance as long as possible.