Reverse mode and knockdowns

[kinngrimm]

I assume it's a rework of the knockdown chance calculation to reward higher quality hits (heatshots, held attacks, etc) with higher knockdown chance while making "poor quality" hits (near-glance, un-held torso hits, etc) be much less likely to knockdown.

if done as you suppose, then it would be a good thing indeed.

[Moncho]

if done as you suppose, then it would be a good thing indeed.

He posted this earlier today:

If we stick with the formula I proposed, leg and head hits will have increased chance, while body hits will have less.

Quote from: Tydeus on 04 February 2014, 21:21:59
Change the knockdown formula so that leg and head hits use formula 1 and all other hits use formula 2.
Formula 1: (rand(0.0, 1.0) + .05 < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 40.0) * 0.2, 5.0) * 0.015)
Formula 2: (rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(max(item_weight * 0.33, 1.0), 2.0) * min(max((raw_damage - 40.0) * 0.5, 5.0), 15.0) * 0.015)

[gallonigher]

I assume it's a rework of the knockdown chance calculation to reward higher quality hits (heatshots, held attacks, etc) with higher knockdown chance while making "poor quality" hits (near-glance, un-held torso hits, etc) be much less likely to knockdown.

I like that; it would certainly clean up the random knockdowns that seem to spam from every direction

[dreadnok]

The blunt mode of the Bec makes the Long Hafted Knobbed/Spiked Maces nearly obsolete, yet someone thought that was a good idea. A couple nights ago on NA2, something like 75% of the melee players were running around with Becs in secondary mode.

The became is a cheese dick weapon to begin with. The length and the model do not match up at all.  You get hit so far away from it because it looks like its going to miss then bam your hit. Not to mention the damage on the pierce is beastly. Forget about even seeing an overhead . Just up and hit.

[dreadnok]

l

[dreadnok]

I assume it's a rework of the knockdown chance calculation to reward higher quality hits (heatshots, held attacks, etc) with higher knockdown chance while making "poor quality" hits (near-glance, un-held torso hits, etc) be much less likely to knockdown.

Which would be fantastic!

[San]

Necro!

I think that with the updated knockdown and rolls, 1h pierce alt modes should have knockdown added. Knockdown used to be unthinkable at the weapon speeds of these alt modes, but the knockdown mechanic is much more robust than before.

Pickaxe alt mode: 16b->20b + knockdown (alt mode is slower, so damage difference is smaller)
Fighting pick alt mode: add knockdown
Military pick alt mode:26b->25b + knockdown. Reduce weight to 1.8.
Steel pick alt mode: 28b->27b + knockdown. Reduce weight to 1.8.

This still makes them quite a bit weaker than their mace counterparts, but this change gives the weapons some additional strategies without being overcentralizing.

[MURDERTRON]

Knock down is a liability for 1hers now, since the roll is so fast and so long, forcing you to close the distance again with your short weapon.  It's even worse for shielders due to the movement penalty.  I don't think they really need it or would benefit that much.

[Kafein]

Knock down is a liability for 1hers now, since the roll is so fast and so long, forcing you to close the distance again with your short weapon.  It's even worse for shielders due to the movement penalty.  I don't think they really need it or would benefit that much.

It's not like it ever happens with 1h unless your enemy lets you knock him down on purpose anyway.

[Senni__Ti]

Knockdown from the 1hs has always been a pet peeve of mine.
There is really nothing I dislike more in CRPG. (Knockdown in general)

I find it doesn't add anything to the game for me, only detracts from it. I don't want the ability to get a cheap swing on an opponent leading to free hits, it just cheapens it for me.
On the otherside, getting hit by a knockdown weapon, ending up on the floor and usually dieing. That's pretty irritating to say the least.
Especially when the hit does less than 10% damage, yet I still end up on the floor for them to likely kill me. (Usually 1hs from my experience)

In a dream scenario, I'd like to see knockdown removed from most the 1h weapons, leaving just the heavier ones like warhammer, military hammer etc.

This could be tied in with a 1h rebalance
- shield skill to every 6 agi (free up points, allows 1hers to get similar builds to 2h/polearms at the same levels e.g. 18 21 lvl 30)
- 1h stab nerf (keep the animation, reduce damage 1-2 points)
- a buff to the weapons that lose KD (dmg or speed were appropriate)

Just my 2 cents/pennies

[AwesomeHail]

Knockdown from the 1hs has always been a pet peeve of mine.
There is really nothing I dislike more in CRPG. (Knockdown in general)

I find it doesn't add anything to the game for me, only detracts from it. I don't want the ability to get a cheap swing on an opponent leading to free hits, it just cheapens it for me.
On the otherside, getting hit by a knockdown weapon, ending up on the floor and usually dieing. That's pretty irritating to say the least.
Especially when the hit does less than 10% damage, yet I still end up on the floor for them to likely kill me. (Usually 1hs from my experience)

In a dream scenario, I'd like to see knockdown removed from most the 1h weapons, leaving just the heavier ones like warhammer, military hammer etc.

This could be tied in with a 1h rebalance
- shield skill to every 6 agi (free up points, allows 1hers to get similar builds to 2h/polearms at the same levels e.g. 18 21 lvl 30)
- 1h stab nerf (keep the animation, reduce damage 1-2 points)
- a buff to the weapons that lose KD (dmg or speed were appropriate)

Just my 2 cents/pennies

I dont even know how to roll, i mean i try, but fail every time.

every cunt 1hits me anyways , fucking levelwhores nowadays

[Phew]

This could be tied in with a 1h rebalance
- shield skill to every 6 agi (free up points, allows 1hers to get similar builds to 2h/polearms at the same levels e.g. 18 21 lvl 30)
- 1h stab nerf (keep the animation, reduce damage 1-2 points)
- a buff to the weapons that lose KD (dmg or speed were appropriate)

When I used to use knockdown 1h, it caused me to teamwound allies about as often as it enabled a "free" kill (knock someone down, teammate accidentally walks over them while they are on the ground). I'd probably be more likely to use the Spathovaklion if it had knockdown removed, as its stats are still nice without knockdown. Military Sickle would fit the bill if it didn't look like a farm implement.

Your shield skill idea is interesting, although 4 shield skill is all anyone really needs nowadays, and that's still a good use of points compared to say 4 IF. 1h stab is indeed quite powerful, but as long as 2h has lolstab and pole has lightning overheads and right swing, 1h might as well have something OP as well.

[AwesomeHail]

When I used to use knockdown 1h, it caused me to teamwound allies about as often as it enabled a "free" kill (knock someone down, teammate accidentally walks over them while they are on the ground). I'd probably be more likely to use the Spathovaklion if it had knockdown removed, as its stats are still nice without knockdown. Military Sickle would fit the bill if it didn't look like a farm implement.

Your shield skill idea is interesting, although 4 shield skill is all anyone really needs nowadays, and that's still a good use of points compared to say 4 IF. 1h stab is indeed quite powerful, but as long as 2h has lolstab and pole has lightning overheads and right swing, 1h might as well have something OP as well.

well said.

[MURDERTRON]

In my experience, although mostly related to Strat battles, 1h is the worst class to hit someone on the ground with.  The overhead is questionable on whether or not it will hit a downed opponent and if you miss with a longer weapon you risk bouncing and getting ganked.  The right swing is wide, and often gets caught on teammates also trying to steal a free kill.  The left swing requires you to stand over the body, which means you're going to get team hit.  It used to drive me nuts in Strat when I scored a knockdown with a great maul or long maul only to have a teammate 1h shielder stand over the guy and then I TK him.

[Phew]

In my experience, although mostly related to Strat battles, 1h is the worst class to hit someone on the ground with.  The overhead is questionable on whether or not it will hit a downed opponent and if you miss with a longer weapon you risk bouncing and getting ganked.  The right swing is wide, and often gets caught on teammates also trying to steal a free kill.  The left swing requires you to stand over the body, which means you're going to get team hit.  It used to drive me nuts in Strat when I scored a knockdown with a great maul or long maul only to have a teammate 1h shielder stand over the guy and then I TK him.

Yeah, I can't hit guys on the ground to save my life with 1h. Overhead and stab bounce then stun me so I die when the guy gets up. The sideswings indeed have the problems you mention.

When fighting a 1h, the ground is about the safest place you can be.